tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post164751108136302..comments2023-10-02T03:46:00.384-07:00Comments on EYE M SICK: Thoughts on the Incident...Bigmouthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04885083460724621786noreply@blogger.comBlogger314125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-54334257573175049602009-06-03T17:07:59.956-07:002009-06-03T17:07:59.956-07:00Well, guess I'll see you on the next post. I&#...Well, guess I'll see you on the next post. I'll keep checking up here for a bit.Wayne Allen Salleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199261942617339556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-55122479720344583362009-06-03T13:44:01.229-07:002009-06-03T13:44:01.229-07:00ryan is doing a nice little light vs dark series
...ryan is doing a nice little light vs dark series<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://blog.zap2it.com/lost" rel="nofollow">Zap2Lost</a>Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-21197919726415911972009-06-03T11:33:57.191-07:002009-06-03T11:33:57.191-07:00Good work JG! And yes to all of it. I had forgette...Good work JG! And yes to all of it. I had forgetten about the Ajira flight schedule, especially via the non-ARG. But as you say, that would be in 2009, and the ARG was saying that we'd be "on" the flight with them after we signed up to the reconsituted DI (snicker). Not that I believe that's supposed to go exactly with the show, I don't at all, it just adds more to the confusion. :-o<br /><br />I also like your Q about, what if one of the changes was massive. Nice thought to chew on, hmmm. But also remember that according to TPTB, Des only went back to 1996 mentally not corporeally, or something like that. ???<br /><br />Also, his memoroy of Daniel did not actually have to happen 3 years later, if we consider the Kerr theory of concentric time-shells. Des could have gotten the "memory" immediately after Dan told him passing across laterally, if they were existing "parallel" across the time shells.<br /><br />If we didn't find out about the time it took Locke to visit people (great work GT!) I would have thought that Abbadon was just a VERY fast driver, heheh. :o)<br /><br />Oh wow Wayne, I love the thought of Jacob and MIB talking while the LBs are briefly gawking in disbelief at the statue before they skip off again! :-D<br /><br />Good point about the pilot JG, I like it. That whole thing has been a point of much blog discussion since it happened, and what you say makes a lot of sense.<br /><br />Great comments everyone!<br /><br />FWIW, here are my photos of the B-17 yesterday: http://testerpix.blogspot.com/ I had to take them in lowish-rez because I was running out of disk space, but I think that maybe I got some enjoyable tight abstract shots? I like avionic rivets. :-)Capcomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06841675195251354073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-59665994689284423472009-06-03T10:21:34.026-07:002009-06-03T10:21:34.026-07:00I'm reading the Lostpedia "Lost Rewatch&q...I'm reading the Lostpedia "Lost Rewatch" blog pertaining to the pilot episode (at http://blog.lostpedia.com/2009/05/lost-rewatch-1x01-pilot-part-1.html), and I got to the part where it stated that the murder of Oceanic 815's pilot by the Smoke Monster was senseless. It didn't even appear that it took the time to judge him.<br /><br />I thought about it for a second, and remembered that Frank Lapidus was supposed to be the pilot of that plane. Was the Smoke Monster perhaps angry to find someone on the Island that wasn't supposed to be there? This might explain its reaction to Keamy's men--people that aren't "authorized" to be on the Island.Jon Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-42958723213983259092009-06-03T09:31:16.515-07:002009-06-03T09:31:16.515-07:00i can't remember, did anybody talk about the d...i can't remember, did anybody talk about the dog on the hieroglyph<br /><br /><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/76965273@N00/3592837470/sizes/o/" rel="nofollow">new god</a>synchrobrarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11330016404676115668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-59925239603173179142009-06-02T22:57:29.687-07:002009-06-02T22:57:29.687-07:00Hey, guys. Jon, I was refrencing Brother Campbell ...Hey, guys. Jon, I was refrencing Brother Campbell a few times recently, and was following up one of your recent comments. I think the point about 2008 came up when someone discussed Des & Penny being in 2008 with the plane in 2007. I just like being devil's advocate, the whole thing about where is it implicite blah blah blah. But I then mentioned somewhere above about just what you and Greg are discussing, that the only logical reason for the plane to jump back such a short time would be that Jacob needed them (well, Ben and bad Locke) in 2007. I guess I never factored in Locke dying in 2008, and THAT is the deciding factor. But it still behooves me...I mean, I'm a writer, I get called on stuff by editors and my agent over things like this. Wouldn't it have been less confusing to have Benthem die in 2007, or will this loophole thing become clear in S6, the 2007/8 thing. Maybe there's a metaphor in the loophole taking at least 170 years to be woven but only a few weeks/months to be sewn shut. Or something like that. (Yea, me good writer, me am).<br /><br />And I totally agree re: the time skips, and I'll bet when Miles points out the back of the statue, MIB and Jacob are watching the Black Rock on the horizon. I want to think that MIB and Jacob both control them, because Jacob knew MIB would one day kill him, and maybe nudged things along.Wayne Allen Salleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199261942617339556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-77750201378702274252009-06-02T19:50:07.997-07:002009-06-02T19:50:07.997-07:00jon, not exactly what is in my head but the booken...jon, not exactly what is in my head but the bookends model works for me<br /><br />reincarnation fits in with the eastern religion and esoteric aspects of the show, mainly i just thought it was a interesting different approach than my notion of the losties family having spent time on the island, In the end I have no idea yet what their previous connections to the island is, just seems they had a previous connection to the island and contemplating a variety of possibilities<br /><br />the Brother Campbell and Eloise Hawking photo was another black/white dichotomy<br /><br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/76965273@N00/513469350/sizes/o/Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-49558430473586528802009-06-02T15:29:12.705-07:002009-06-02T15:29:12.705-07:00Wayne, I had also seen that picture of Brother Cam...Wayne, I had also seen that picture of Brother Campbell and Eloise Hawking on Lostpedia. Very interesting, eh? Did you mention it as a bit of trivia, or does it have relevance to something I'd said earlier? Also, I'm not sure if anybody believes that the Ajira folks have any clue that they've traveled back in time. <br /><br />And it looks like it's true about the reference to Jack's conversation with Bentham being a month prior to Jack opening Locke's casket. Here is the exact conversation, from http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/There%27s_No_Place_Like_Home,_Parts_2_%26_3_transcript<br /><br /><br /><B>BEN</B>: Hello, Jack. Sorry. Didn't mean to scare you. Did he tell you that I was off the island? <br /><br /><B>JACK</B>: Yes, he did. <br /><br /><B>BEN</B>: When did you speak to him? <br /><br /><B>JACK</B>: About a month ago. <br /><br /><br />So if Bentham's passport was dated 12/12/07, then a month later would indeed be in January 2008. That being said, I think that settles it that Desmond being in the hospital definitely occurs in 2008.<br /><br />Greg, very interesting theory about reincarnation. Do you think these are the same reincarnated people who ALWAYS helped him, perhaps in every cycle? Or perhaps he's picking one reincarnated person from each cycle who was the most helpful. And does it mean anything that most of them are known to have father issues? The only two that don't are Sayid and Ilana, but it's possible that they actually do and we just don't know it yet.<br /><br />As for why you think the time travel back to 2007 is necessary for the loophole to work, I totally agree with you. My reason for believing it is that I hold to the idea that the time loop has "bookends", and for MIB to take advantage of the loophole, it has to be within the boundaries of the time loop. One of the bookends is the point in time where Ajira 316 flies into the Island's barrier. But that plane carries the corpse of the man that MIB needs to copy BEFORE the time loop ends (not so that he's ABLE to copy Locke, but so that people will BELIEVE that he's Locke). One of the reasons for this is because MIB needs to be there at the point in time where Richard hands Locke the compass--which happened BEFORE the time loop ended.<br /><br />I've also wondered about whether or not someone was in control of the time skips and to what time period they brought people. If MIB isn't controlling these time skips, then he's at least taking advantage of them. For instance, if he knew when Locke would appear with a gunshot wound, he could make sure that he is there with Richard to give him the compass.Jon Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-26308481455517320452009-06-02T14:41:52.848-07:002009-06-02T14:41:52.848-07:00this is another theory on how those touched by jac...this is another theory on how those touched by jacob had a previous connection to the island<br /><br />"Jacob knew whom to touch because <br />these people are reincarnated versions of someone who <br />helped him, or loved him, or served him in the past"<br /><br /><br /><A HREF="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/e7fac8df361c545f#" REL="nofollow">alt.tv.lost</A>Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-72151477136365977082009-06-02T14:12:50.721-07:002009-06-02T14:12:50.721-07:00so is it settled that des in the hsopital from ben...so is it settled that des in the hsopital from ben's gunshot happened in 2008?<br /><br />wayne, i still think they had to time travel back to 2007 in order for the loophole to work, i'll try to figure out a way to explain what i meanGreg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-47256747323512301042009-06-02T13:46:05.278-07:002009-06-02T13:46:05.278-07:00Thanks, Greg. I knew that, at least in the case of...Thanks, Greg. I knew that, at least in the case of Jack, it had been longer. I can't imagine seeing Locke talking with everyone in a few days time. That does bring into account the passport date, which would then bring his visit to Dec 07-Jan 08. I guess the question now is, why does anyone think that the Ajira people think its 2007? What I said before holds true, why would it show Thirty and 1/2 years later. Certainly, the timeline could be less sloppy.<br /><br />Jon G, re: Des & Penny. He met her when he worked at the monastery, after being let go. Brother Campbell let him go for boozing it up, he met Penny that day. On his desk, there is a photo of Brother Campbell and Eloise Hawking.Wayne Allen Salleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199261942617339556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-68076259834032431912009-06-02T12:39:15.260-07:002009-06-02T12:39:15.260-07:00there's this but it is from lostpedia but i THINK ...there's this but it is from lostpedia but i THINK i remember jack saying this to ben <br /><br />"Jack, still apparently drunk and high, drives to the funeral parlor after hours. He breaks in and approaches the casket, noticing that no one has yet signed the release form for Bentham's body. Ben suddenly enters the room. Jack says that Bentham had told him Ben was off the Island, Jack and Kate having spoken to Bentham about a MONTH prior."<br /><br /><A HREF="http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/There%27s_No_Place_Like_Home,_Parts_2_%26_3" REL="nofollow">There's No Place Like Home</A>Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-36617570874151828442009-06-02T11:50:31.411-07:002009-06-02T11:50:31.411-07:00Capcom, great point about Eloise's concern about D...Capcom, great point about Eloise's concern about Desmond pushing the button versus the universe's ability to course correct. But we all know, as does Eloise, that it's possible to make changes even with the whole course-correcting aspect to time. Desmond has proven that already with Charlie. But here's the $64,000 question: what if one of those changes was so massive that it killed all humanity? How does the universe course-correct for that?<br /><br />But that's not the only wrinkle to this mess. Desmond's consciousness went back in time to 1996 right at the moment he turned the failsafe key. If he changed his actions in 1996, would there be IMMEDIATE repercussions in the future, such that the universe would not have time to course-correct? Even though it would seem like the universe would have eight years to course-correct between 1996 and 2004, perhaps the nature of Desmond's time skip makes it an immediate change to both 1996 and 2004. <br /><br />Perhaps with Desmond there are certain things that happen in his past whose effects are stalled until years later. When Faraday tells Desmond to contact his mother, the memory doesn't surface until three years later. When Desmond time skips, it is between 1996 and 2004, as if there was no time gap between these two dates. For Desmond, the time skips are immediate. Perhaps if Desmond were to have married Penny and not go to the Island, the universe in some strange way would not have time to course correct. I don't know if that makes any sense or not, but it does in my muddled brain.Jon Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-82554267513741042842009-06-02T11:49:19.726-07:002009-06-02T11:49:19.726-07:00seems like alot for locke to do in the 2 1/2 weeks...seems like alot for locke to do in the 2 1/2 weeks after dec 12 but i guess it is possible, plus there were some days in there after the death of locke before flight 316<br /><br />maybe it was christmas when jacob was pushed into the fireGreg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-18465307112304309952009-06-02T11:17:08.188-07:002009-06-02T11:17:08.188-07:00DJ - I just want you to know that you aren't alone...DJ - I just want you to know that you aren't alone in making a connection to LOST with the Air France flight. It's not everyday that a huge plane like that seems to disappearAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-6289109623399820972009-06-02T10:31:09.404-07:002009-06-02T10:31:09.404-07:00I'm trying to piece together why Lostpedians (my n...I'm trying to piece together why Lostpedians (my new term for Lostpedia users, which includes myself) are thinking that Flight 316 left in 2008 and went back in time to 2007. After lots of fruitless searching I can't find a single piece of evidence to back up the 2008 date for the Ajira 316 flight.<br /><br />The closest thing to proof that I could find was the date on Jeremy Bentham's passport, which was given to Locke by Charles Widmore. If you look at the picture at http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/d/d4/Locke-2-.jpg you can see that the date is 12/12/07. If you factor in all the places that Locke would have had to go before trying to commit suicide, then factor in the time it took for the following events that led up to the Ajira 316 flight, you could still end up with a date of 2007.<br /><br />I think the main reason that some fans were thinking that it was in 2008 was because the Ajira website listed flights boarding on January 21st. But that was the date of the season premiere and may have been merely promotional in nature. Plus, I believe the Ajira website lists flights beginning in January 2009, not 2008.<br /><br />I guess we'll need more info before being able to say for sure what's going on.Jon Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-46503279255319787432009-06-02T09:57:32.673-07:002009-06-02T09:57:32.673-07:00Nice points guys.
Also good Q about the Hurley re...Nice points guys.<br /><br />Also good Q about the Hurley release. I asked about the 2008 date of departure at TLC and they also agree that it is pretty ambiguous, as well as the reference for assuming that date being iffy. <br /><br />I'm leaving in a few minutes to check out a B-17 today, so I'll<br />investigate those Hurley papers, etc., after we get back.<br /><br />One thing I don't get about Mrs.H insisting that Des do the failsafe is....if the Universe course-corrects, and Des doesn't turn the key when she wants him too, won't someone else just come along and push it? Hmm.Capcomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06841675195251354073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-14068588889826991772009-06-02T09:44:16.370-07:002009-06-02T09:44:16.370-07:00yep, des is a pivotal character and hoping there i...yep, des is a pivotal character and hoping there is more to come involving him<br /><br />i'm wondering if when he said see you in another life to jack if he was time traveling<br /><br />on the jan 2008 issue, was there a date on anything when hurley was discharged from jail or when des was admitted to the hospital or when they were boarding 316?<br /><br />wayne, your thinking all of this happened in 2007, right?Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-72775611859148169842009-06-02T09:14:02.970-07:002009-06-02T09:14:02.970-07:00What if Desmond is the constant AND the variable? ...What if Desmond is the constant AND the variable? He is both what anchors the time loop and the one who can change it?<br /><br />I've been working on similarities between Lost and the Matrix, and one of the things I've been trying to figure out is who on Lost would be the equivalent of Neo. My bet right now is that it is Desmond. In the Matrix, Neo was the one who was bound by destiny (via the Path of the One) to perform a certain task. That task was to uphold the cycles as previous Ones had done before him, and maintain the status quo. Yet Neo left that path to create his own (the Path of Neo). And even though his free will choice to make his own destiny still ultimately led him to the same destination as the path made for him by the Machines, Neo's path was on his own terms and the result (the end of the cycles) was completely different and unforeseen. <br /><br />A good analogy of Desmond's role as a variable would be when he saves Charlie's life. It was destiny that Charlie would die, but Desmond made that happen on his own terms and changed the outcome (alerting Widmore to the Island's location and to the rescue of the Oceanic Six via Penny's boat). <br /><br />We've also seen how Desmond acts as a sort of anchor or constant, as people in his life have set him in place to be on the Island at a certain time so that he can save the world by turning the fail-safe key.<br /><br />On a side note, I'm still confused why Eloise told Desmond that pushing the button would be the greatest thing he ever did. Seems to me that turning the failsafe key was the greatest thing he's ever done--so far, anyway.Jon Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-3817909868405021172009-06-02T07:14:42.349-07:002009-06-02T07:14:42.349-07:00those TPTB irk me sometimes
one of these days...P...those TPTB irk me sometimes<br /><br />one of these days...Pow! Right to the MOON<br /><br />anyway, if this is one of my favorite blog posts covering religion on lost<br /><br /><A HREF="http://fishbiscuitlandblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/holy-smoke-people-need-to-believe.html" REL="nofollow">Holy Smoke</A>Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-68914917082607456182009-06-02T06:59:12.102-07:002009-06-02T06:59:12.102-07:00Re: Bentham's obit -- unfortunately, TPTB later sa...Re: Bentham's obit -- unfortunately, TPTB later said (I think the during the hiatus after that season) that the obit is not true to the story details or canon and that the details in it are not true. Which really sucketh the big one, and made lots of fans very P.O.'d. Because why would TPTB put info like that in there for us to see, knowing how infintessimal our interest is in the show, and knowing that we would disect every detail of that said obit??!! I don't know if in the final analysis the obit means anything or not (as per dates, info, whatever) except for the fact that JB died, because I got ticked off and ignored it after all that came out about it not being real. WTH?! :-p<br /><br />I'll try to find out more about the Janurary 2008 thing.<br /><br />Oh yeah, I remember your post on Des' shirt! :-oCapcomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06841675195251354073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-82564661025795494842009-06-01T23:07:14.376-07:002009-06-01T23:07:14.376-07:00Richard can still pull the bullet from future Lock...Richard can still pull the bullet from future Locke's leg, Greg. There is no real referential point, obituary or episode air time, that states when Locke arrived in Tunisia and then went on to contact the 06 and get killed by Ben. They do flash the 30 Years Later/Earlier bit, but if it is June in 1977, is it June (or later) in 2007? Goes with my thoughts that the show remained in 2007, at one point (in 2007) we saw Jack's flashforward, then we passed that in real time, I've just accepted that everything was playing out in 2007. Sometimes I post w/o checking, but does it specifically state (or does Widmore tell Locke) when Locke appears in Tunisia?<br /><br />No doubt that Phoenix shirt meant something from the beginning. Everything does with this show.Wayne Allen Salleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17199261942617339556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-2583347639091770672009-06-01T20:08:55.228-07:002009-06-01T20:08:55.228-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-20641684448069442132009-06-01T20:08:52.334-07:002009-06-01T20:08:52.334-07:00wayne, the only problem i see with both 316 groups...wayne, the only problem i see with both 316 groups NOT going back in time is that means the richard getting the bullet out of locke's leg scene happened in future time LATER than when locke transported to tunisia which to me seems like an issue but maybe notGreg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17498689.post-57630682479468133622009-06-01T18:53:17.872-07:002009-06-01T18:53:17.872-07:00des is the constant instead of the variable, lol
...des is the constant instead of the variable, lol<br /><br />but yes, i think des STILL has an important role to play and maybe this is a clue<br /><br />jacob getting pushed into the fire made us think about a phoenix so i think we need to go back to look at what is on des's shirt in the “see you in another life brotha” scene <br /><br />btw, this is THE scene that got me hooked on lost<br /><br /><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/76965273@N00/440976853/sizes/o/" rel="nofollow">phoenix on des’ shirt? why?</a>Greg Tramelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15652524153139042548noreply@blogger.com