In that regard, the S4 finale served as a kind of memorial retrospective, repeatedly evoking pivotal moments from seasons past. The Others' attack on Keamy's men resembled the ambush of our Losties in the S2 finale. Keamy confronting Locke in the Orchid paralleled Des doing the same in the Swan. Juliet drowning her despair in Dharma rum recalled Des getting drunk on Dharma wine. The rescue of the O6 by Penny reminded me of the Others taking Walt from the raft. Jack saying "see you in another life" expressly echoed Desmond's line before running off into the jungle.
Perhaps the clearest reference to something from a past episode was the one I predicted in my post Purple Sky. Ben turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel was obviously meant to parallel Desmond turning the Fail-Safe key. In both instances, the act of turning was followed by a blinding flash of light, an earthquake, a whining drone, and electromagnetic discharge. There's even a connection between moving the Island and the mystery of how Charlie, Des, Eko, and Locke survived the Swan implosion. The Fail-Safe hurtled them forward in spacetime much like the Frozen Donkey Wheel jumped the Island to safety.
After the S3 finale, I worried that the writers might be tempted to take a page from Battlestar Galactica, jumping the main story ahead in time to the real world without first depicting the rescue. Instead, they kept the narrative focused on the Island, using flashforwards as a transition to off-Island events. Now that we know how the O6 made it back to civilization, I'm comfortable with a chronological leap forward. At this point, in fact, such a jump makes total sense from a plot perspective. Ask yourself, why did Locke suddenly reappear in their lives a few months ago?
It's because turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel moved the Island forward a few years in spacetime. The rest of the world caught up with it only recently. Here are some other thoughts and reactions I had to There's No Place Like Home, Parts 2 and 3:
*I really like how they started the episode at the airport, right where the flashforward from Through the Looking Glass ended.
*The moment they mentioned Jeremy Bentham's name, I knew this character had some connection to John Locke. Bentham, of course, was another famous Enlightenment philosopher who was influenced by Locke.
*Interesting how Sawyer has taken to calling Hurley "Hugo," but Jack still calls him "Hurley." It subtly foreshadows Sawyer and Jack's respective choices to stay and leave the Island.
*Keamy asks a good question: why would Widmore go to all the trouble and expense of capturing Ben alive?
*Sometimes the Others fight like ninjas, other times, not so much.
*Oh, Omar! You deserved a more badass death than that...
*Clearly my main man Ricardo Alpert has no qualms about killing himself...and clearly it was *not* his pleasure to come to Ben's aid.
*Taller Walt was a trip! It's rather brilliant the way locating part of the story in the future allows them to bring the same actor back despite his growth spurt. That's just one of many upsides to the writers' bold narrative gambit.
*You know something? I think Walt knows his dad is dead, and Hurley isn't lying when he says they need to protect Losties like Mike, who didn't make it back. That's because the Island is a place where the living and dad can interact, where "we don't have to think like that anymore."
*Hurley mentions the Dharma crackers from a box dug up out of the the ground are still good. I can't help wondering if this is a metaphor for a coffin, which can similarly be "dug up out of the ground." Question is, will Locke's body still be "good"?
*"You're not supposed to go home. Then what am I supposed to do?" The constant refrain of "supposed to" reminds me a bit of "you make your own luck."
*Anthuriums are the same flower surrounding the manifestation of Yemi whom Eko accused of impersonating his brother.
*"The bomb needs a charge from the battery to detonate. And the battery runs on a chemical reaction. I spray the battery, I keep it cold, no reaction." My first reaction was that they're giving a shoutout to MacGyver. Then it occurred to me the frozen battery might just be a metaphor for the Frozen Donkey Wheel. Did Ben kick-start some chemical reaction by turning the thing?
*What *does* Miles mean by Charlotte spending so much time to get back to the Island? In my recap of Confirmed Dead, I mentioned that the "look of elation on Charlotte's face would suggest she's been trying to find the Island for some time." I then speculated that "some of these Freighter folks were born on the Island." Now we learn that Charlotte herself believes she was born there. Does that mean her birth predates the pregnancy problem? Was she conceived on or off the Island? Flashbacks to Charlotte's childhood will be another excellent window into the Dharma Initiative...
*Did anyone else get the sense Locke and Ben were descending into the underworld as they rode down in the Orchid elevator?
*"Same things all the Dharma stations are for -- silly experiments." To my mind, this line supports the inference that Dharma was meddling with technology from some arbitrarily advanced ancient civilization they neither understood nor appreciated.
*Ben telling Locke to watch a video while he takes care of some business reminded me of Ben's patronizing tone with Jacob. I had an image of an exasperated parent parking a child in front of a DVD while "Daddy works"...
*I totally thought of the Fly remake when we first saw the Orchid teleportation chamber Halliwax calls the "Vault."
*The Dharma music always reminds me of some parody of a bad '70s porno soundtrack...
*If the Orchid is "6 OF 6," it was built after the Swan, which was "3 OF 6"...
*Halliwax implies that the "pocket of negatively charged exotic matter" next to the Vault is naturally occurring. But we know, as apparently did Dharma, that it's actually the remains of an ancient alien device.
*The prohibition against placing metallic objects in the Vault reminds me of the same rule regarding microwave ovens!
*The experiment depicted in the Orchid video involves shifting Bunny 15 ahead 100 milliseconds in "four dimensional space." I believe this most recent purple sky event similarly shifted the Island ahead in 4D space to a time contemporaneous with Jeremy Bentham's "reappearance" in the lives of the Oceanic 6 and Walt.**
* I'm personally skeptical of time loop speculations, but you have to wonder given the obvious symbolism of the automatically rewinding tape and Danielle's automated distress call.
*Kate and Sawyer are too similar to end up together -- they each need someone more Apollonian to balance their Dionysian tendencies. That's why I believe Kate will end up with Jack, and Sawyer with Juliet.
*"Hey, Kenny Rogers" LOL!
*The fact that Jack actually saw Sawyer whisper the secret of his baby to Kate makes it all the more baffling why she doesn't level with Jack in the flashforward...
*Who killed Locke and, more importantly, how? Why didn't the Island, the rules of the Game, etc., protect Locke like Ben?
*I personally think Ben killed Locke. Hurley's chess game with ghostly Mr. Eko is a metaphor for Ben's desperate gambit to return to the Island. Bringing Locke's body may be the only way back for someone who has moved the Island. Like Ben says, he always has a plan...
*I find it hard to believe Jin would stay behind with the bomb when the safety of his wife and unborn child is uncertain. Michael shouldn't have to remind him, though I suppose it underscores how Jin has become concerned for all of our Losties, instead of just Sun.
*More whispers before Christian reappears to tell Michael he "can go now"...
*Awwww, hearing baby Ji Yeon say "uma" reminds me of my little cousin Sophia. Ain't she cute?
*I love Sun's dark turn in the flashforwards! Though I'm sure she'd deny it, she's well on her way to becoming just like her father...
*"I believe I owe him dinner after our last game." What game did Charles Widmore mean? I doubt this is an oblique reference to the battle over the Island, but you never know. Are these titans allies or competitors in the race to get back?
"As you know, we're not the only ones who left the Island." This presumably refers to Locke, whose return to civilization means the Island has reappeared.
*"Sometimes, good command decisions get compromised by bad emotional responses. I'm sure you're going to do a much better job than I ever did." I believe this is an allusion to the difficulties Locke will encounter leading the Others, who Ben also promises will follow his "every word." As Locke said to Jack shortly after they opened the Swan Hatch, "I can't do it alone." Locke's instinct was correct -- the man of faith needs to be tempered by the man of science to fulfill their destiny. That's why bad things happen after Jack leaves the Island...
*Was it just me, or did Sawyer emerging from the ocean ironically reference some famous scene from Bond film or maybe Blue Lagoon where a woman does the same?
*So how exactly *does* Ben know how to move the Island? It's almost like he's seen it done before, but there's no evidence anyone has been behind the Vault since it was first built.
*Love the Star Trek shoutout in having to bring the body back to the Island. In Star Trek III, the Enterprise crew must bring Spock's dead body back to Vulcan to be reunited with his consciousness, which he stored temporarily in the mind of Dr. McCoy.
*"Sorry I made your life so miserable." In the Lost Bible, I suggested that Aaron was the messiah, and John Locke his John the Baptist. Recent events, however, have me questioning that biblical analogy in favor of another suggested by BlackLotus, who believes Locke is the Jesus figure on the show. The notion of resurrecting Locke is one clue along these lines. Another is Ben's aforementioned apology along with his claim that whoever moves the Island can never return. I'm reminded of the myth of the Wandering Jew, who taunted Jesus on the road to cucifixion and was cursed to wander the Earth until the Second Coming.
*The title of my post Jacob's Moving Castle was an allusion to the anime classic Howl's Moving Castle. But it didn't occur to me until the finale that the Island itself might be an even better analogy than the cabin. In the film, the eponymous moving castle allows travel to one of four different destinations depending on the spin of a wheel by the magical front door. Interestingly, Sawyer's nickname for Aaron is Turnip Head, which is also the nickname of a main character in Howl's Moving Castle.
*Might the bright white light that accompanied turns of the Swan key and the Frozen Donkey Wheel alike be blamed on a Bosenova? Props to a poster named yung23, who has been preaching the relevance of particle physics generally, and exotic matter called "condensates" specifically for some time.
*Kate's reversed phone message in her dream supposedly says: "The Island needs you -- you have to go back before it's too late." Odd then that Claire yells "don't you dare bring him back!" Is Claire having second thoughts about staying behind with Jacob? At a minimum, it would appear there are two sides, each of whom wants something very different for Aaron and Kate.
*The Searcher was also the name of Jacques Cousteau's boat. One hopes this will put an end to the "Penny is evil" speculations. Surely the ghost of Cousteau would never allow his boat to be bought by someone evil...right?
**Correction: The original sentence erroneously stated that Locke reappears around the same time that Ben lands in the Tunisian desert. In fact, the latter happens in 2005, while the former occurs in 2007.
68 comments:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham
Not quite the hadron collider... and not quite my cool idea about Ben's arm wound...
Call me a jerk but all these things just keep happening, keep piling on top of each other, and yet we really get no answers. We still know nothing about the mythology of the Island. No clues about Smokie except that Ben has some power over it. No clues about the healing properties. About what's really going on at the Orchid... I mean that orientation film was just a shortened version of the one they gave out at the beginning of the season... What about Hanso? The Black Rock?...
Don't get me wrong... it was good to see it all play out, especially after being teased with last season's finale... Jack all strung-out and whatnot, and us being left to wonder how it got that way, how he got off the Island, if anyone else did... Yeah, it was good to see these things. But my curiosity hasn't been sated at all!
And to make matters worse... Charlotte? Been here before? Maybe that's why they let her character be so overwhelmingly useless for the entire season... because she'll be important later? Ugh. What exactly was going on in the Orchid, for crying out loud!? I actually think that's as good as it's gonna get. We won't get a full answer. That WAS the answer. It's there, something happens when you do this, ta-da. You have to accept some things for what they are.
I will say, though! Bravo, Penny. You totally just saved their lives. Yay for Penny and Desmond! Made me all smiley and goofy to see those two finally together again. So happy for them!
I was a little cheesed about Jeremy... some asshat posted "IT'S LOCKE IN THE COFFIN SORRY GUYS" on one of the finale promos on YouTube, so I knew it was coming. It was still shocking to have it confirmed, but it wasn't the big mindfuck I was hoping for.
What makes me scratch my head now, though, is... what is up with special sets of people traveling with a dead dude in a coffin? I mean, we have our original survivors with Christian in his coffin, they get to the Island, and all this mess proceeds. And uhm, Christian's back as a result. He just gets up and starts walking around. Can we expect the same from John? They make it back and, bam, John wakes up and gives everybody a big ol' grin? (Which would be cool...)
I'm also left to wonder about Michael and Jin. Eek. That didn't look good, especially for Michael. You can go now? ...erp.
loved miles. loved that desmond and penny are together. thought we'd see more "dead people". and is jeremy benthan locke?? kinda looked like it...i'm confused? ben is still evil. and i was a little disappointed with the episode(s), a little slow and not much info.
Jeremy Bentham is an alias Locke used off the Island so as not to draw attention to himself. He really just wanted to find the 6 and convince them to come back. What I -don't- know is how he died...
I kind of feel like my brain is mush! Loved the greenhouse scenes, and the Orchid scenes too. Can't wait to find out what's up with the metal in the chamber problem, maybe its just like a microwave. And sonnovagun, it really was a frozen donkey wheel! But they didn't have an easier way to get to it besides blowing a hole in the chamber wall? Curious about that too. Exotic matter? I hope that Dan is alive next season to help us out with that. Isn't exotic matter negative anyway, so how could it be nagatively charged? Maybe I misunderstood Ben.
Anyway, yes, loved the Des and Pen rescue, and that sits well that they had a chance to fix their story on her boat. Nice boat. But I get worried that Des kept saying that nothing would separate them, he'd never leave her etc....he'll jinx it! :-)
Miles was great, we need more Miles next season! Glad to see that Charlotte stayed behind, so maybe we will learn more. And yes DJ, it's looking like Sister/Brotherhood of the Traveling Coffins. Keamy was scary. That actor has just cemented his place in TV history with the others. So much to talk about, wow. And the ARG too, yippee.
Yeah, Keamy was awesome, He's a brute that just... has the best taunt and facial expressions. That actor's gonna make the big bucks. =O
There was a commercial on after the show... or near the end... Octagon Global Research... it seemed a little fishy to me, but I didn't pay it much notice. I'm farting around on Lostpedia right now and just noticed that uhh, yeah, apparently it was related material.
Call me crazy, but does it not sound like a modern-age Dharma Initiative? Come on -- octagon?
Oh, duh. That's what you meant by ARG. ^_^;
*Recruiting, sorry. Not Research.
Oh yeah, and now Sun is unknowingly working against the good of the island, by hooking up to work with Widmore? Ruh-oh. So much of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is on this show!
Yeah, DJ, go to the site, you can send your email, but it's verrrrrry slow in sending tonight. I'm going to try again tomorrow.
Mmm I think it's going to be for a convention out in California. If I'd all the time and money in the world, I'd join in, but seeing as how I don't and I'm in Texas... mmmmm yea. Will just have to hear it second-hand.
I really should read and check stuff out before I post! I sound like a total buffoon! :)
I think there's a bad case of Shyamalanism going around (ie making a good story into a bad story by making decisions because you think it will 'shock' the auidence, not because its the best choice.) A well crafted twist is perhaps one of the most powerful devices in fiction. A twist for the sake of a twist is just farce.
However, two gems:
Sun is our new Big Bad!
The amazing facial expressions of Elizabeth Mitchell.
Gah!! I'm beginning to think that they call this show "LOST" b/c it makes you go in circles!!
K, on to my questions etc.
- In the enhanced episode, why did Jack name Boone, Libby and Charlie as the other three who "survived the plane crash?" Why not Paolo, Nikki, and Eco (or any combination of people who died on the island?)
- Anyone figure out what Jeremy Bentham is an anagram for yet? Better yet, what about the name of that funeral parlor?
- If Ben says they ALL have to go back, does that mean Desmond and the helicopter pilot too?
- What happens to Faraday?!?!
Observations:
I felt sooooo bad for Juliet! I think she knew Faraday wasn't coming back.... However, I had to give an evil giggle when Sawyer comes out of the water like a sun-kissed god. At least Island life will be ~interesting~ for Juliet now that Ben's gone. >;D
WTF?! So first, Aaron can only be raised by Claire on the Island and now she doesn't want Kate to bring him back?! ...and now that Kate is attached to Aaron and vice versa, what would happen if she brought him back??
... and WTH happened to Claire anyway?!?!?
Gah!! ((Pulling out hair))
Oh, and that commercial was def for the the San Diego Comic Con. Damn! I wish I could go!!!
(Now I hate everything!) =(
This entire episode was extremely emotional for me, from Des and Penni getting back together to Sun's loss to what Michael did and the loss of Jin [who may actually be dead dead not 'dead'], Kate's dreams, how Ben reacted to the taunts of Alex, Sawyer's sacrifice, man...it was just too emotional for me.
I hate Kate, I don't know why she thinks shes so important and has a say about Aaron when he isn't even related to her.
I love Sawyer and Jack...funny cuz I used to dislike Sawyer at first...Jack's always been my constant.
I really do hope they can get back to the island and the next season explains things more thoroughly...I smiled when Jack and Des told each other that famous line...I'll see you in another life. I hope things go smoothly for him and Pen and Frank whom I'm grown to love :)
Still confused as to what Char meant about searching for where she was born and when Miles asked her why she was going back when she finally came back to the island..
Interested to know what happens to Dan, I know he defo came back because they show him watching the wreck and crying...what about the others?
Wonder what the bad things Locke spoke of were...in the last 4 mins and 34 secs I was like oh its gonna be a big omg moment...I think most people guessed it would be Locke but I dunno...bring him back? Maybe the island will save him, wonder why he came off in the first place :S
I felt so sorry for Ben when he was moving the island :( I thought he said once a person moves they never come back? But he told Jack that he came back from the island?
Sun looks like she will be a hard ass bitch I just don't know who to, probably Jack...I really hope Jin is alive :(
Whats all this natter about an enhanced episode??? :O Dj your right, it wasn't a huge mind fuck, infact the last scene wasn't very mind fucking at all unfortunately :( But I really hope that wasn't all for the answers...someone [either the producers or our very own BM!] needs to give us answers!
After Kate woke up and went to Aaron I was just waiting for him to open his red eyes or something...is it just me of does that kid look seriously evil and fucked up? Not the usual awww I get when I see a kid but like a GET AWAY FROM ME! Like the devil's child in the omen and shit!
Finally [for the moment] anyone have any guesses to who the other two survivors who died might be? I know they said 8 made it and 2 died, did they just pick 2 at random or does it have any significance? Can't wait till your analysis BM :) I've got you a bunch of convertees who are now as hooked to here as myself :)
Oh.... and another thing... What are the possibilities that Charlotte is Ben's old childhood friend?
... and the only anagram I came up with for Jeremy Bentham is "Jeer Ben a myth"
lol!
lil-beeyotch, they showed an "enhanced episode" last night of the show from two weeks ago. During the press conference, Jack stated that three survivors from the plane crash died...
1) Boone - Died shortly after
2) Libby - Can't remember how she died
3) Charlie - Jack said he died 2 weeks before they were rescued and the entire crowd gasped w/shock.
I don't know what to think of the finale, I guess it was OK. I was expecting something mind bending but instead I get my favorite character in a coffin apparently dead (that probably brought the finale as a whole down a few steps for me).
I'm thoroughly confused over why Ben who is working on behalf of Jacob/John would be saying "Come back", meanwhile Claire who we last saw with Christian (Jacob?) is saying "Don't come back". Maybe dead Christian slayed Jacob and is now applying his evil agenda.
When Jin went boom I was wondering what purpose he completed to let him die (please if he is swimming in the ocean for a month and miraculously lives that would be weak), and I'm guessing his death was his purpose, it turned Sun into a strong woman who can speak for herself in her HOFFS/DRAWLER.
Season 4 was great, the finale was ok (borderline good), I'm anxious to see what an unlocked mind got out of it.
LOL Aaron with red eyes!!!!! Yes, that was an expectant moment, wasn't it?! :-D
I hate Kate too. Like Bart Simpson said when Lisa rejected Ralphie's valentine -- "if you slow down the tape you can see the exact point where his heart breaks" -- when Kate ran past Sawyer with a "yeah, hi, how're ya doing", and went straight to Jack, you can see how it tore him up. That was great expressive acting on Josh's part.
As hard as Ben is on Locke, I was expecting him to call Jack a big whiney boozing baby when he told him that his actions were "dark". :-p
Very intriguing, lolagrrl, about Charlotte possibly being Annie. But Charlotte and Ben met each other a while back while Locke was leading his people on a pilgrimage around the Island, and I figure *something* would have happened then... I mean, he shot her, for crying out loud! Is that what we do to girls who give us wooden dolls? Never.
Also, I really don't think Jeremy Bentham is an anagram... I don't think you're going to get any special words out of it. It's like John Locke or any of the other philosopher's names they've used for their characters -- the meaning you're searching for is probably right there in your face, you just have to research what the philosopher's contributions to the realm of ideas were. For example, one of John Locke's big things was tabula rasa -- that we're all blank, we all make our own way... men aren't born good or evil, we just figure it out as we go. Kind of like how Ben told John in the Orchid, in response to John's confused "What do I tell them to do?"... "You'll find your own way, John, just as you always do." That's sort of what they said to each other, anyway. But the point is there. John has always been one about not being told what he can and can't do, also -- he wants to decide. No one else. :)
Did this remind you of Howl's Moving Castle?
Good anime movie to check out. Wonder if the Lost writers gave it whirl.
I think the only signifigance of "Jeremy Bentham" is that the real Jeremy Bentham is mumified and on display at London University College. When I was at school, and I believe since he died really, people tended to talk to his corpse in a box like he's still alive. Even I got in the habit of saying hello when walking by.
If you read up on Benthem, whose name I knew last year from the DarkUFO site where they manipulated the newspaper clipping from April of 2007, it will show that his philosophies influenced the real John Locke. Locke may still be "alive" in the sense that now we have the time travel stuff. Ben ends up in Tunisia directly after this episode, but its evident he (or at least someone with the Dean Moriarty passport) has been at that hotel before. Something I never thought about as I kept on about my silly light cones theory, the darn polar bears moved the donkey wheel in the past. Why not? One was in Tunisia. There had to have been another entrance, maybe that line about moving the Island as a last resort destroyed the previous main entrance? I think Charlotte is RELATED to Annie. We never knew if either was an only child, and regardless that Ben didn't recognize her, Annie's family might have taken her and Charlotte off before the Purge, maybe the dad was an agent against Widmore? If Charlotte was in her early teens in 1992, she might not know anything at all past her dad and mom being Dharma. (She was ecstatic about the Hydra logo from minute one). I like how this entire season came full circle, and, although I agree with dj, there has to be something to bring to the table in 2009. Maybe next year, after the year of the Others, then the year of the Freighters, we will get the mythology. Plus we are in that grey area where flash forwards can also be flashbacks, kinda. Maybe in Locke's case, when he meets Walt. Oh, and Jin was far enough from the intial explosion that he could have jumped into the water before the entire ship blew up. I told the person I watched with last night that maybe anyone in the water, Sawyer, Faraday, Jin (maybe) would still be in the "zone" or "vortice." Anyone in the air was screwed.
@bigmouth, hope you'll keep posing all summer long, its what kept me reading your blog two years ago...
Interesting Neaux, like when they go out that doorway of the Castle and they can emerge in/at different places?
Good points Wayne! I was thinking about those holes at the ends of the FDW spokes myself, but didn't bother to follow it to any conclusion.
Also, great idea about it not necessarily being Ben who had used, or always used, a Moriarity ID. There could have been IDs with other Others' pix on them, like Richard e.g.
Heheh, so we'll have flash-sideways/ups/downs/whatevers, in the upcoming eps. :-)
One thing I forgot, that ad is for the San Diego comic con, last year they showed the Orchid time travelling bunny film. Also, they did a fake sighting of the Joker robbing a bank. There are four Wizard cons over the summer, NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago, and San Diego in August. There is no LA con, so that's why everything happens in SD.
what ever happened to Desmond telling Charlie that he (Charlie) had to die, so Claire could get on the helicopter? But Claire never made it to the helicopter, what happened?
Bigmouth, I enjoy your blog. Lost is the one broadcast TV show I watch, and your pondering adds a nice extended dimension to the program. I would say that Locke's "Bentham" alias is a joke about the rest of the show's cast dragging his embalmed body around with them, much the way that the historical Bentham's body remains a part of life at the University College London.
I'm in a hurry, here's some anagrams for whoever asked earlier.
Jeremy Bentham -
Ben he ram my jet - my favorite!
Ben jeer my math
My jet been harm
Math by jeer men
Jam by there men - Jammed by keamy's men? the transmitter bomb?
Jam by ether men
Jam by three men - How many guys wired up Keamy?
My jet be her man
I honestly don't think that any of these are significant, mainly because of who the actual Jeremy Bentham is, and I LOVE the idea posted by anonymous @ 11:26am, either the post above this one or just a few up. Whats up with all the oxford university refrences on the show?
Hahaha! The anagram thing was bugging me so I looked it up. Turns out that the name of the funeral home is an anagram for "Flash Forward"
Doh! Guess I'm a lil' slow on the uptake. ;D
Hahahaha, Anon! I was only thinking that Locke is now a body in a cabinet like Bentham, but that's even better. I wonder if they can cremate him to make it easier to lug him around?
Lisa, maybe Des just got a fuzzy vision of a female carrying a baby onto the helo, and he assumed that it was Claire?
Great episode. In my opinion some of the best 2 hours of Lost ever! Though I am a little bummed that the four-toed statue and the Black Rock were not addressed. And it seems like they intentionally skipped over any detail regarding The Orchid.
Ah well, there is always Season 5...
Hmm will have to check up on that, you got any links Lola???
I dunno why but he just looks evil and I really hate Kate as well capcom...specially when she slapped Jack I was like get your hands off of her you stupid slut...Saywer, Jack, Saywer...yeah what a noble act!
Hmm maybe they will show a bit of the magic box...they seriously left ALOT of things unanswered like the statue, black rock, etc...darn strike!
2009 though... I might die. OT but while I love eye liner on Capt. Jack Sparrow, it wasn't doing anything for Richard :P
For those who are wondering:
Daniel Farraday arrives on the island on DAY 91 (December 21st, 2004)
The events of "There's No Place Like Home 2 and 3" (Season Finale) take place on December 31st, 2004 which would be DAY 101.
So . . .
Days with a tie on: TEN
Burning Question: Does he SLEEP with it on? OR DOES he take it off at night and PUT IT BACK on each morning?
. . . and who would rather know the answer to THIS question vs. that silly "What is the smoke monster?" issue?
OK, Skid. I'm sure we will see it next year. But what is smellier, the tie or Lapidus's sleeveless t-shirt?
skid - you rock!
Yes, I was hoping for some 4-toed action, and some more about the Black Rock, because they sure did talk enough about it this season and during the game.
I vote that Faraday takes his tie off at night, and puts it on again in the morning, like a good orderly scientist. :-)
P.S. I posted a little bit and some Qs about the exotic matter, for a start: http://capcomslost.blogspot.com/
Bigmouth: I assumed Sun's comment, "As you know, we're not the only ones who left the Island," was a reference to Desmond, not Locke.
I assumed it was a refernce to Ben, not Locke or Desmond....
What about Rose and Bernard? They could have done a touching moment of let's go, let's say juxtaposed with Sawyer and Michael and Jin's sacrifice.
So many redshirts dead, huh? It seemed as though the freighter blowing up was just to let their background-ness disapper. I'm thinking that the island and the surrounding 5 miles of water (and all that was in it, including Faraday and the zodiac) have gone with the island.
But let me get this straight, the island jumps ahead in time (I'm ok with that), but why does it almost sink into the ocean and how does it fit in with Ben in Tunisia (I believe Ben went 10 months ahead, the island too?)?
Interesting summary. :-)
It looked to me like the island disappeared/moved, and what we saw was the displacement of the ocean filling in where the island used to be. It didn't look to me like it sank, but I could be wrong.
Wasn't Wid talking about their golf game? I'll have to check that again.
I don't understand Ben's comment to Locke about him being better at making decisions. As far as I can remember, every time Locke has messed something up, it's been because he let his emotions get the best of him while ignoring logic. Unless Ben was being his usual snarkastic self, I don't understand Ben there. I have a very bad feeling about Locke being in charge of the Others. I think that Richard could do a better job. Maybe Locke's just being used as a puppet....again.
Boy, wouldn't that be the ultimate revenge if Ben killed Locke and is using it to pretend that the O6 are in danger and must get back to the island -- much like we suspect he killed Nadia to manipulate Sayid. Can't wait for more elaboration there! Well, the only punishment that I can think of worthy to pay Ben back for his Machiavelian life, is for him to be stuck out of phase in Jacob's place for eternity.
P.S. Anthurium flowers don't look like the red flower that is usually shown on the island, and in the field with Yemi. That one is more of a segmented stalk bloom similar to a bromeliad flower or one of the flowers that is called a Ginger Torch. Someone right after that episode aired named the tropical plant's name, but I can't find reference to it yet.
I don't know if this has been thought of before but I have a theory about the moving of the island...
Is it possible that they could move the island before by not pushing the button since that did create the same purple sky as when the island moved. It’s also Desmond failing to push the button that made the plane crash right. Maybe there was no island there and then the island appeared and the plane came crashing down on it.
Also that would explain the need to break the wall to get to the wheel this time cause the hatch was destroyed...
Just a thought...
Widmore asked Sun why she would want to help him. I think she wants to help him because the second person she blames in Jins death is Ben. "Bentham" visited Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Walt I'm sure he visited Sun too. When he did he told her Ben killed Keamy therefore setting off the bombs on the freighter. Ben knew killing Keamy would blow up the freighter because Keamy was expaining that while Ben was hiding in the Orchid waiting to make his move. Buying part of Paik Ind was a way of getting back at her father and helping Widmore is a way of getting back at Ben.
btw...love your blog!
When Widmore was talking with Sun, he said "he's quite a golfer" after mentioning the game with her dad, so no mystery there.
One think to point out, as I see a lot of folks speculating that Charlotte is Ben's Annie. Recall that we know Charlotte's birthday--I forget the date that Ben confirmed, but the year was definitely 1979, so she's 25yrs old on the island in 2004. Ben is early 40s, though I don't recall if we got an exact age for him. So he's at least 15yrs older than Charlotte, making it extremely unlikely she would be Annie. Considering Miles' demonstrated abilities, I'd think perhaps reincarnation is at play, or some kind of traveling consciousness. Or if Ben started early, and somehow got Annie off the island, it's possible he could have a biological daughter, perhaps, though I doubt he'd have shot his own daughter like he did Charlotte...
Here's a thought I had on Kate's dream. Perhaps it was just a dream - a manifestation of why Kate wants to believe she should NOT go back to the island. So far we know that Jack and Hurley have been visited by ghosts while awake. So maybe next season we'll see Claire visit Kate while she's awake and actually tell her she does need to go to the island and bring Aaron. Claire could visit in a dream as it would be easier to "talk" to a dead person in your dreams of course. But I thought I'd put that out there that perhaps what Claire had to say was Kate's thoughts.
I like your ideas about the crash and Swan Lisa!
Good points Anon about Locke telling Sun about Keamy, and Ben not caring if he killed people. And also about the Charlotte timeline. Maybe the whisperers are telling Miles some things too?
That's what I was thinking too Crhistie about Claire, while I was trying to simplify how complicated it seemed. Would TPTB throw us off track like that? I think it's very possible. :-)
ACK!! Fuselage is still DOWN!!! I am already starting Lost summer hiatus withdraw, and no lage to give me a lost fix!!!
I agree that even though we have been show more information, we are given more questions than answers. Now we know the orchid is not the magic box, what the hell is??? And to think, we have to wait until Feb to find out more... there had better be a very good summer lost experience!!!!
Anonymous -- Sun blames her father and Jack for Jin's death, as evidenced by Jack's rambling at the end of the finale.
I don't know why but I expected two wheels for moving the island.
like one for latitude and longitude... assuming the island is moving to another location on earth.
but maybe one wheel could move the island like a specific chess piece.
Maybe just diagonally like the bishop, or maybe all over like the Queen.
When Christian appeared and told Michael he "can go now" I think he meant that he was free to die now. His purpose was fulfilled. It's the only reason I can think of for that line.
@BM: I had to laugh at the irony of your typo (if it was a typo) when you wrote "That's because the Island is a place where the living and DAD can interact..."
@neaux and the rest: glad you brought up the chessboard. Sometime after the White Rabbit episode and last summer's Orchid video (the one with the swearing, you can see that now on the S3 DVD), I've been thinking of lines from Jefferson Airplane's "White Rabbit" song. Along with certain recurring images like black, white, and backgammon, it's like certain people are being manipulated and moved, like on a chessboard. Even lines in the song about logic and proportion (the light scatters?) and the White Knight talking backwards (the Whispers). Wooden men on the chessboard makes me think of puppets or marrionettes. Ben and Widmore playing chess, Hurley and Eko doing the same. Just my two cents.
Good point Wayne, and if the Losties were indeed manipulated into being on that plane, going to the right place, at the right time, they really were pieces on the board.
Heheh, I laffed at that to Machramm. :-)
Awesome Wayne, I thought of the same connection with the early backgammon games!
Just being picky,
*Anthuriums are the same flower surrounding the manifestation of Yemi whom Eko accused of impersonating his brother.
They are not the same flower.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=78893&fullsize=1 - Red Ginger
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=117343&fullsize=1 Anthuriums
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthurium
Alex: Thanks for the link!
dj: We didn't get the Large Hadron Collider or Dr. Candle's missing arm, but we did get another purple sky! Which reminds me, I wish Lost would slip even more popular music into the show. How cool would it have been if the Island disappeared to the opening riffs of Purple Haze? BTW, I think the date in the Octagon commercial is for Comic Con in San Diego, the same event where they premiered the original Orchid Orientation.
Capcom: I believe Halliwax referred to "negatively charged exotic matter." To me, that suggests that the matter in question has not only negative mass (i.e., it's "exotic") but negative charge, as well. Could this be a reference to antimatter? The wiki for "exotic matter" notes that, while most physicists believe that antimatter has positive mass, there are those who predict the opposite, which would make the stuff exotic.
Apocalypse: Yes, I'm a tad tired of the M. Knight formula myself. As you note, however, a well crafted twist can be a powerful storytelling device. What I like about Lost generally, and this finale specifically, is that the twists drive the narrative forward. That's not the case in M. Knight's films, where the twist usually concludes the story. BTW, I agree 100% about Elizabeth Mitchell's expressive face. I especially love how she communicates with her eyes and Mona Lisa smile.
Lolagrrl: I wondered why those three myself. The best explanation I can think of is that these three were likely to have people keep looking for them. Boone was rich and I'm guessing Libby was too (her husband owned a boat) while Charlie was famous. Having the O6 confirm their deaths offers a level of certainty that would be lacking if they were simply presumed dead. As for your Charlotte speculation, I think she's a little young to be Ben's childhood friend. What if she's Annie's relative like Wayne suggests -- or ever her daughter by another man?
lil-beeyotch: Agreed -- this was a very moving episode with the pain of Jin and Sun's separation offering poignant contrast to the joy of Desmond and Penny's reunion. I have a feeling these two couples have a very important role to play in the end game of the show. In that regard, Jack and Desmond's line may well have been ironic foreshadowing, along with Jack's line about never wanting to see Frank again. I'm also totally with you about Aaron looking especially evil in those scenes with Kate. I keep expecting his little towhead to do a 360 degree turn LOL!
BTW, what makes you think Dan made it back to civilization? I get the sense he's still on the Island and that there will be renewed conflict between the forces of science and faith. Come to think of it, is that be the bad things that Locke/Bentham?
Jason: True, but I find nonetheless fitting that the Wrath of Khan season ends with the death of a fan favorite like Spock or Locke (hey!). Besides, I have faith Locke will live on, first in flashbacks and eventually via the Island. I'm with you that Ben working again for John doesn't make sense unless this is some ruse to force the Island to take him back. In fact, I can't shake the suspicion that he killed Locke as part of the plan.
BTW, see my comment above about Kate's dream. The phone tells Kate she has to come back to the Island just before Claire orders her not bring Aaron back. We seem to have two distinct voices working at cross purposes in the same dream!
neaux: I, too, totally thought of Howl's Moving Castle! Interesting that Sawyer refers to Aaron as "turnip head" at one point. I also like your metaphor of the chess game, which also resonates with the Alice references. I often wonder if the reversed speech we occasionally hear (e.g., wet Walt and Kate's phone call) are the result of someone experiencing the arrow of time in reverse like the White Queen remembers the future in Through the Looking Glass.
Wayne: Polar bears turning the frozen donkey wheel? That's brilliant! Maybe Dharma exposed animals to its effects before building the Vault? I think you're right on target that the hotel has been accepting guests under the Moriarty name for some time. The clerk's reaction presumably reflects surprise that someone as young as Ben could have been visiting the hotel for so long. As for Charlotte being related to Annie, I'm with you 100% -- see my comments above to Lolagrrl.
And have no fear, I will definitely be updating EyeMSick over the hiatus! I may even put together a podcast or two in preparation for the new season.
lisa: Whoah...that's a great question re Desmond's vision of Claire getting into the helicopter! Do you suppose that's why Jacob sequestered her in the cabin? He wanted to prevent Desmond's vision from becoming reality? More than ever, I feel like the conflict is between those who want to change the timeline and those who would protect it.
Anonymous: Thanks for your kind words! But there's a world of brilliant television you're missing. For example, have you checked out the remake of Battlestar Galactica? I suspect fans of Lost would find much to enjoy about that show. As for the body of Jeremy Bentam, I like the connection you and Apocalypse cite to Bentham's body at University College London. The image of them schlepping around his corpse for the next two years cracks me up -- very Weekend at Bernie's LOL!
SKID: LMAO! I suspect (hope?) that one of the reasons the writers left Faraday on the Island was to set up a scene next season where he explains how Smokey works.
Anonymous: Interesting...I hadn't considered that the reference to someone else leaving the Island was to Des. But I still think it's Locke because both Sun and Widmore want to find the Island again. Only someone who was on it when it moved would know where it's now located. Sets up an interesting race to find the Island that pits Jack and Ben's group against Widmore and Sun's.
James: A reference to Ben would make sense too. But see my preceding comments to Anonymous -- I have a feeling the point is to set up a race between two factions to find the Island. Sun is telling Widmore that the Island is once again accessible to the world so they should team up to find it. As for the Island sinking, like Capcom, I suspect the ripples were the result of water filling the empty space left by the Island's disappearance.
Lia: Very interesting theory re the Swan button and moving the Island! My own speculation is similar to your own. I think the Swan moved the Island slightly out of sync with the rest of the world -- and kept it there. When Des failed to push the button, the Island moved briefly back in sync with the world, allowing the Swan's powerful electromagnet to pull the plane apart.
Anonymous: Thanks! Interesting speculation about Sun blaming Ben for the death of her husband. But wouldn't she be just as likely to blame Widmore for Keamy's conduct? I actually think Ben was the one who helped orchestrate her takeover of Paik Indus. Again, my suspicion is that Sun wants to get back just as surely as Jack does. I even wonder if she's being haunted by the ghost of Jin...
Anonymous: Interesting...I missed his reference to their golf game. I actually think this makes it more likely that Widmore is referring obliquely to the Island. As I describe in Purple Sky, golf is a great metaphor for why it's so hard to find the Island. And don't forget -- Paik apparently *did* have an agent on the Freighter in Charlotte. Speaking of Ms. C. Lewis, I like your speculation that reincarnation is somehow at play. What if teen Ben got Annie pregnant in their mid teens, which is why Ben went to such lengths to protect Alex from Karl's advances?
Christie: Very interesting interpretation of Kate's dream! Under this reading, the backwards phone message might represent some inner conflict over whether she should or shouldn't go back. But consider this -- we've yet to see a single dream on Lost that didn't come true in some way, shape, or form. My guess is that Kate's dream will be no different...
kansasgal: LOL! I know what you mean -- losing the fuselage right after the season finale was really frustrating. BTW, I was thought of your Michio Kaku thread when we saw Halliwax. It occurred to me that Francois Chau's various characters might be a shoutout to the groovy Dr. Kaku!
machramm: LMAO! The typo wasn't intentional, but it works so well I think I'll leave it. I also think you're right about what Christian meant when he said Michael could go now. Here's what keeps frying my noodle: how and why does zombie Christian change his clothes?
SamG: D'oh! Looks like lostpedia led me astray on this one. But thanks for the correction -- could the red be a reference to a color code ala Lucidity's Sewing Kit theory?
BigMouth,
We did mention the flowers there.
Thinking about Charlotte "being previously on the island": If all of our Islanders need to be together to get back to the island...is it possible that holds true for anyone who gets off the island? Is that why Abbadon wants Charlotte, Farraday, and Miles to all go on the mission even though Naomi disagrees. Could Whidmore have gotten these people together to help in his attempts to find the island? Maybe Lapidis, too, but his age doesn't really match. I mean, I know that each of those three has their own "talents", which would make them good "candidates" for going on this mission, but could Miles be able to speak to the dead specifically because he came from the island? Just a thought.
Interesting point Anonymous, I like it.
Anonymous: Very provocative insight! It sure seems like Abaddon knows a lot about the Island. I could easily see him selecting Miles to speak with the dead generally, and Jacob specifically. I could also see someone (Jacob?) working to get a specific combination of passengers on Oceanic 815. I suspect, however, that the O6 are different. Their inability to return has something to do with these particular people having some destiny to fulfill on the Island.
Wayne: Did you see Doc Jensen's wrapup column over at EW.com? He has a similar speculation to your own that the polar bears were being trained to turn the frozen donkey wheel. This continues to make a lot of sense to me -- good thinking!
Actually, Bigmouth, it was just my thinking about Charlotte finding the polar bear skeleton in Tunisia. To take it further, let's say that was the ONLY polar bear in Tunisia, as I'm of the belief that the bear was there because the Island had been moved ONCE, to hide it from Widmore. Once Widmore knew where the skeleton was (i.e., which vile vortex it ended up at), he had Abaddon (or Naomi) set up the away team. Widmore/Hanso had to know of the wheel, it was clear it had moved, the coordinates in Tunisia meant something for them to get the freighter that close.
Wayne: Interesting speculation! But if knowledge of the polar bear allowed Widmore to find the Island, and Ben landed in the same zone as the polar bear, wouldn't that imply the same routes of access still work? In other words, wouldn't Widmore still be able to find the Island? I have a feeling something fundamental has changed. Maybe, by moving the Island forward in time, its portals have necessarily been reoriented in space.
Here's a whackadoo speculation: did Magnus Hanso move the Island forward in time? Is that why the Black Rock looks so new? Maybe Alvar is old Magnus after all...
Heheh, it's funny to think about how the DI might have tried to use the raw power of the FDW more than once, and that there are polar bears littered all over Tunisia, and/or the other vortices spots. :o)
yes, sophia is "numoh, numoh, eepo-dah". -da' cha
Hey, Bigmouth. I was signing books in St. Louis over the weekend, just back to it now. What I meant about Ben and the polar bear both showing up in Tunisia is that Tunisia is the end portal. If Abe Vigoda (very much alive, and private joke between big and me, sorry)had moved the donkey wheel, he would be in Tunisia. But this still wouldn't explain when/where the Island moved to. I put my theory out there without explaining it correctly. You move the wheel, you are in Tunisia (at least in recent times), but even you might not know where the Island moved to. And if you (or lovable 'ol Abe Vigoda) didn't know where the Island moved to, then Widmore couldn't know, either. He could SPECULATE, hence the freighter trips, but Ben and the bear in the same end place wouldn't mean anything. I'll raise you on your wackadoo theory on the Black Rock...what if the Tunisia end portal moves over time just as our night skies have seen several pole stars over the millenia? When you move the wheel you get shot as close to magnetic north as the wormhole can send you (granted, not that close). I keep wanting to see the Northern Hemisphere play into this, going back to when Hurley was playing Connect Four with Toomey and Sam won the game with it looking like a mirror image Big Dipper...
I'll raise you one even further Wayne, what about when the earth's magnetic poles reverse?! Heheh. I wonder if that affects the vortices positions as well? We are supposed to be due for one of those shifts soon-ish, so They say.
Cha: Emo...?
Wayne: Brilliant! The constellations analogy is precisely what I've been looking for to explain how moving the Island in time might reorient it in space, as well. Brilliant!
Capcom: Very interesting re polar reversal -- Darlton have been talking a lot about antipodes recently.
And don't forget the reversed Ursa Major in the sky when Sayid and Hurley were sitting on the beach listening to Glen Miller.
http://capcomslost.blogspot.com/2007/11/random-quirky-mystery-part-1.html
But way back then, we didn't know about the island moving.
The season finale reminded me a lot of Season 4 in general. It was pretty good, but had a lot of flaws. And I feel that it may have been slightly overrated.
"Kate and Sawyer are too similar to end up together -- they each need someone more Apollonian to balance their Dionysian tendencies. That's why I believe Kate will end up with Jack, and Sawyer with Juliet."
I disagree. I think that Sawyer and Kate's similarities are superficial. From an emotional point of view, I believe they are different. Sawyer strikes me as more of an extrovert and Kate, an introvert.
On the other hand, both Jack and Kate seem like introverts. And both have a tendency to cling to their illusions. They remind me of a younger version of that couple from "MR. AND MRS. BRIDGES", who end up barely speaking a word to each other.
I don't think that Jack and Kate are suited for one another. Personality wise, I don't think they balance each other at all. Unfortunately for Jack, I can say the same about his relationship with Juliet. She is another introvert that he could do without. And yet, like Kate, she can balance out Sawyer's extroverted personality.
I think that Jack needs a woman with an extroverted personality in his life. Neither Kate or Juliet can provide that for him.
Juanita: Very interesting character analyses! I especially like your point that Jack and Kate are introverts at heart.
This would certainly provide an alternate explanation for Kate's attraction to Sawyer. I wonder if that's why Jack was attracted to Sarah, who seemed like more of an extrovert to me.
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