Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Thoughts on Namaste...

I like to describe Lost as the sci-fi equivalent of Memento because both are stories told in reverse. They establish mysteries at the outset that are then answered by moving viewers backwards in time. Memento is actually a linear narrative structured in non-linear fashion to create the mystery. Time travel serves the same basic purpose on Lost. For the past few seasons we've puzzled over strange coincidences involving our Losties and the Island. And now, as that talking boar who peed in Sawyer's tent might say, it's all finally coming back around.



I believe Namaste is the beginning of some major revelations that will totally recontextualize our understanding of certain characters' relationships to each other and the Island. I have a number of whackadoo speculations in this regard, but I want to highlight a few given the introduction of Radzinsky, the return of young Ben, and the naming of Horace and Amelia's baby as Ethan. Let's start with Radz, who I suspect is really Leonard Simms, the mental patient who obsessively repeated the Numbers and admonished Hurley for "opening the box."



Both are obviously bald, but that hardly narrows it down. The glasses aren't the same, but they're awfully similar. Maybe Radzinsky developed a preference for the same general type of frame the way some people pick a style of dress upon adulthood and refuse to deviate from it. Bottom line: I could see Lenny plausibly being an older version of Radz.



For this to work, however, a lot of what we think we know -- Radzinsky's suicide, how Lenny and Sam Toomey overheard the Numbers, etc. -- would be lies. Here's my alternate version of events: Radz got wind of the Purge from his vantage point in the Flame. He made radio contact with military liason Sam, who promised to send help. Radz then went to secure the Swan button, which he pushed until relief arrived in the form of Kelvin. Radz escaped by conning Kelvin into assuming the button duty much as the Kelvin would later try doing to Desmond.

Speaking of the Purge, the return of its perpetrator as a boy has inspired a whackadoo speculation about Ben and Juliet. I believe she's the subject of the painting that will hang in Ben's house as an adult.



The woman in the painting is blonde like Juliet, and she could be holding a field mouse, which was the subject of Juliet's fertility research. As Capcom perceptively notes, the two women share the same Mona Lisa smile. I suspect young Ben will develop a huge crush on hippy Juliet. (I know I have!) She will convince the boy to spring Sayid and take him to Ricardus Alpert. This act will prove Ben's loyalty to the Others and start him down the road to becoming their leader. In this way, Juliet will play a pivotal role in effectuating the future we know.



The last example I'd like to highlight is Amy, who I believe is actually Amelia, the elder Other we met A Tale of Two Cities . Admittedly, Amy and Amelia don't look very much alike, and it's hard to imagine Amy joining the people who murdered both of her husbands. Then again, I've seen shots of Reiko Aylesworth, the actress who plays Amy, with straight hair like Amelia's. And if Ethan can forgive the Others for killing his father, maybe Amy can, too. I know it's not much, but my gut still tells me the older and younger woman will turn out to be one and the same.



Okay, enough with the over-analysis of photographs. Here, in the spirit of Herb Caen, are some three-dot thoughts on Namaste:

YOU'D BETTER FASTEN YOUR SEATBELT. Notice the change from night to day after Ajira 316 gets hit by the flash. They apparently jumped in time like Ben and Locke did after turning the Wheel... Was it my imagination, or did the plane's radio pick up the Numbers transmission as they were landing? Perhaps that transmission came from 1977 through whatever window Jack and Co. traveled through to land in the time of Dharma. It's almost like they hit a fork in time when they entered the wormhole -- Jack and Co. went one way while the rest of the plane went another... Interesting to see the effect of passing through the Island's wormhole on an airplane minus the effect of the Swan station. The instruments failed like Oceanic 815 but the plane remained otherwise intact unlike its predecessor... In a recent podcast, team Darlton suggested that Jacob told Ben to build the runway. I can buy that, though I find myself wondering if Jacob, like Dave, is a mental manifestation of the character of the Island, which goes by many names.

YOU'VE BEEN ASSIGNED TO THE SHED. Like many of you, I found it hilarious how Jack seemed miffed by his assignment as janitor. But what really struck me was Dr. Chang's explanation that Jack scored low on the aptitude test. I think this was primarily meant to evoke the tests participants took in the most recent ARG, the Dharma Initiative Recruiting Project. Yet the assignment of jobs based on aptitude also struck me as almost Platonic, albeit minus the noble lie. Despite all the flowers and peasant blouses (a great look for Kate, BTW) this was no hippy commune. Dharma seems to have dispensed with any egalitarian or democratic pretense -- it was clear who gave orders and who took them. That realization has me wondering once again just what the Initiative's purpose really was. In posts like Catastrophe, I've suggested that the Dharma was devoted to studying life in the aftermath of planetary catastrophe. We know there's a nuclear bomb (i.e., the Jughead) on the Island. What if the plan included eventually exposing this prototype community to actual nuclear explosion? ...By the way, how perfectly cast is Patrick Fischler as security agent Phil? He positively radiates suspicion and brilliantly toes the line between ridiculous and menacing...

HE SAW THE MODEL OF THE SWAN. I'll be curious to see how accurate Radzinsky's warning proves to be about the need to keep the Swan secret from the Others. Team Darlton have led us to believe in podcasts that Radz survived the Purge because the Others didn't know about the Swan until after Oceanic 815 crashed. But the elaborate precautions he took to hide the Blast Door Map suggest he was worried somone might be watching him over the cameras. Then again, if that were the case, why not just disable the cameras? ...Were the Others really the cause of the Incident? Even if they were, I continue to believe our Losties will play a role, as well. As I described in my recap of La Fleur, I suspect that one of them -- possibly Daniel -- will try to sabotage construction of the Swan. In my most whackadoo moments, I worry the Incident will be caused by detonation of the Jughead, and that Dan will die trying to protect our Losties (and young Charlotte) from its effects... Speaking of the Swan, was it just me, or did its blueprints show a much larger structure than the station we saw back in Season 2?

IT'S PROBABLY JUST AN ANIMAL. In this episode, we go the monster, the whispers, and Zombie Christian, suggesting to me these are all manifestations of the same force (i.e., the Cerberus security system)... I find it interesting how Christian continues to refer to himself as such. Clearly, the dead resurrected by Smokey retain some sense of memory and identity. I wonder if they have a choice whether or not to serve the Island's interests... Othersville looked pretty devastated, presumably due to the attack by Keamy's crew and subsequent appearance of Smokey. Has the latter been hanging out there since repelling Keamy and Co.? ...Zombie Christian first mentions the year 1972. Can we assume that this was the start of the Dharma Initiative as we've seen it? And how does Christian know our Losties are in 1977? ...Speaking of '77, I wonder if Sun wasn't taken back in time because she failed to bring her daughter. I'm guessing both Ji Yeon and Aaron will end up on the Island, and that Desmond will be the one who brings them...

ONE LAST THING. A number of you with more eagle eyes than mine noticed a woman crouching in the shadows behind Sun. I watched the scene again in HD with some tweaks to enhance the brightness. It could be Claire, but I'm skeptical for a couple of reasons. First, you can see the woman put on what appears to be a pair of headphones, suggesting to me she was a member of the sound crew. Second, an even more importantly, I can't imagine them including Claire without mentioning or at least showing her clearly. For that reason, I think any future appearances by Ms. Littleton will be played by Emilie de Ravin herself.

As always, you're welcome to post anonymously, but please identify yourself somehow, so I can distinguish between anonymous posters. Thanks!

93 comments:

Capcom said...

Nice images! And boy, that painting sure does have Juliet's smirky smile, doesn't it.

Well, I'm blown away. Sawyer's speech to Jack was just so incredible. The high point for me, at least on first viewing. It reminded me of how Rudy Gulianni said that he was going to study and follow Churchill's strategies in the days following 9/11.

I'm worried about Dan and Sayid. "Not anymore"? Oh dear.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Only one thing to say now, and Capcom knows this because I've mentioned it. This past autumn I had to get a copy of Blues Image's "Ride, Captain, Ride" to play as I tossed a friend's ashes onto Lake Michigan. I just started associating the song with LOST, moreso with the Black Rock. Glad it made its way to the show, just like "Shambala" did. Sadly, if anyone were to go check the YouTube video, maybe from the old days of MALIBU U (hosted by Ricky Nelson and boy aint I old?), you get shots of guys surfing and a beat-up old fishing boat, then more surfers again. The song just has a Magnus Hanso ring to it, the images, well, just plain no.

Capcom said...

LOL Wayne!

SKID said...

Best moment of the show . . .

Radzinsky watching the MUPPET SHOW in the Pearl . . . at least it was on in the top left television.

Hilarious.

SKID said...

Correction: He was in The Flame.
. . . but it WAS The Muppet Show.

Mere shout out to a writer's fave? . . . or symbolic of the fact that someone(s) on the show is being manipulated by a "puppeteer"???

. . . or could it be that this whole operation is a ruse?

"It's time to put on make-up. It's time to dress up right . . ."

3D said...

Capcom said...

"Well, I'm blown away. Sawyer's speech to Jack was just so incredible. The high point for me, at least on first viewing. It reminded me of how Rudy Gulianni said that he was going to study and follow Churchill's strategies in the days following 9/11."

He must have read Churchill's strategies upside down, since he did nothing but walk around nodding his head and making speeches.

Then again, the dude's incompetence and arrogance partly led to the disaster in the first place, or at least worsened the response time to it from the NYPD and FDNY. You have to start at competence before you can get to Churchill.

"I'm worried about Dan and Sayid. "Not anymore"? Oh dear."

Worry about all of them. The Purge is a-comin'.

Interestingly, we are back in the place we were in Season 1. We don't really know what's going on outside a small circle of information, everyone is packed tightly into one little space, and there is a threat looming on the horizon from the Others who are better informed and know the lay of the land and have the upper hand.

No wonder this show was originally called "The Circle".

Rambling Thoughts of Poohbear said...

Initial thoughts:

• Jack is going to be one to mess everything up. His arrogance is amazing. Here it is, Sawyer and company are trying to keep them all safe, and here he is trying to upstart things. Did you see the look of distaste regarding being a ‘workman?’ In addition, his reaction to Juliet answering the door was priceless. The fact that Sawyer is in control and is making sound decisions is really irking him.

• Never got into the whole Sawyer vs. Jack thing, but, Sawyer has definitely turned out to be one of my favorite characters over the past couple of seasons. His maturity as a leader was really on display during this episode. Loved how he called Jack on how he deals with a situation. In typical Jack fashion, his response was one of a spoiled brat.

• The plane crash. How is it that some ‘landed’ in the 70’s and the rest landed in the ‘present?’ When the tremors started on the plane, it was dark, and then all of a sudden it was light. Did they travel down some type of ‘hole?’ Oh yeah, can I say how much I also love Lapidus?

• Sun and Lapidus. When they were talking to Christian inside one of the Dharma bldgs., and Christian said that something about a journey, was that Smokey filtering around outside? Better watch Sun, her desire to get back to Jin is so strong, no telling what she will do.

• Still not convinced that Christian is on the side of good.

• So Ethan is the baby. How many of Ben folks (Tom, Mikhail, Goodwin, etc.) are products of Dharma folks? Were they recruited off island or are they part of the ‘hostiles’? Did they send baby Ethan off island before the purge?

• We saw Radinsky (sp?). My impression of him was immediate dislike. Will we see him and Kevin Iman sharing a hatch in future episodes?

• So we see Ben as a little one on the island. If the past can’t be changed and what happened always happened, then Ben knew who Sayid (and assumingly the others Losties) many seasons ago.

• Speaking of Sayid, this doesn’t look well for him.

• Where’s Faraday? What did Sawyer mean when he said he wasn’t around anymore? Did he totally lose it?

• Phil the Security guy. He knows something *ain’t* quite right.

Good character piece. Looking forward, as usual, to reading everyone's thoughts. Take care.

Scott said...

Ok, so clearly, the Ajira plane crashed in 2007, but the losties jumped back to 1977... I presume New Otherton is so dilapidated b/c it's been 3 years since anyone's been there. Here are my big questions:

<>Why the flash? The FDW had already been turned

<>Why only the four? Were they the only ones that were "supposed to" come back? That would imply that Locke, Ben, and Sun weren't supposed to come... maybe Sun has turned "against the island", or just should have stayed with Ji Yeon

<> Why exactly did they "need to" come back? Sawyer, Juliet, etc. seemed to be doing just fine after a rough couple of weeks at the start.

<> Does Ben realize that the other Losties are in another time now?

<> How would Jacob/Christian reacted to his presence in New Otherton?

<> Why doesn't Sayid just go join the "hostiles"? We know they're gonna win eventually, and without Ben, they don't seem like bad guys.

<>How did Ethan survive the purge?

<>How did Radzinski survive the purge and end up in the Swan with Kelvin?

Anonymous said...

So many questions, so little time for the Sandman..here goes:
1) Who is the woman behind Sun in the cabin? Was it just a stagehand got caught in the shot and the producers missed it, or is she integral to the story?
2) How come Jack was on the list of recruits before Juliet showed up with the revised list and Kate wasn't?
3) What happened to Daniel? Where is he?
4) How come Sun, Lapidus and Ben didn't make the time jump with Jack and others?
5) Why was Sayid separated from the group that time-jumped?
6) That was a mighty long runway..how long had the Others been clearing it and why?
7) Who in the holy hell is this Caesar guy and why is he important to the narrative of the show?
8) When will Terry O'Quinn be back in an episode? I like him.
9) Was the "animal" that moved the bushes by the dock (when Frank and Sun were on it)Smokey and was "he" there to portray Christian?

Just some things to ponder..loved the episode..have loved them all this season.

machramm said...

I have not read all the posts yet, so I may repeat...

Where (or WHEN) is Faraday?

Ben looked just as shifty as an adolescent. Creepy.

It seems some folks who predicted the baby was Ethan were correct. Nice guess.

80sPro said...

What I know from this is that what I've been saying about Ben being truly on the side of eeevil is true!!

Ben is eevil...He knows everything. EVEN if the time space contiuum hadn't ALWAYS made Ben aware of who Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Juliet are, at LEAST he has seen the picture in the cabin. MY theory is he's in a hurry to get back there because he's got to make sure the purge STILL happens. He knows that our guys (Sawyer Jack Sayid Hurley) would prevent it. Eevil I tells ya!

Re: Daniel: Sawyer's tone when he said "not anymore" was more disappointment than upset, so I think Daniel "took off" as in time shifted.

Christian helping Sun - interesting. Lapidus being with Sun - super cool.

Sayid just HAS to be fine. Just HAS to.

Best line of the show:
"So you go to bed and I will think about what we should do. Isn't that a relief?"
"Yes. It is"

I think Jack is very willing to hand it over. Remember, Pooh, he's got the Faith now.

There was a woman in the cabin? Hmmm.

Christie said...

Anonymous - I didn't see the woman in the cabin with Sun. I totally need to go back and see that part.

Here the one part of the show I keep thinking about. The whole scene where Lapidus and Sun go to the barracks seemed a little odd. We know they landed on the plane in 2007. However when Sun and Lapidus walk into the baracks it has all the old Dharma signs. Maybe I just didn't notice it before but I don't remember all the old Dharma signs (like the Orientation one among others) at the barack when the Others were living there. It's almost like when Sun and Lapidus walk on the dock they have already traveled in time shortly after the purge but before Others moved in. Maybe Christian can project the "time" they were seeing as I think it's pretty clear he's going to show them how to get back in time to get the rest of the losties in 1977. It just didn't seem like Sun and Lapidus were seeing the 2007 barracks. It doesn't make sense that the Others would keep all the Dharma pictures and signs in tact. Just seems like a sick reminder of the ghosts they killed.

Christie said...

By the way, even Lostpedia noticed someone or something behind Sun. I can't believe I missed. Here's the excerpt:

Heading into the cabin, Christian locates a picture on the wall from 1977. When he shows it to Frank and Sun, they see their friends in a recruiting photo from the DHARMA Initiative. While talking with Christian, the door opens and the monster appears to enter the room. After this, someone is visible sitting behind her. Christian says: "I'm sorry but you have a bit of a journey ahead of you."

Anonymous said...

Juliette left Kate off the list so that she could seem in control.

I have to watch it again but after sawyer's speech to Jack he said something about Jack not being charge and I thought Jack looked relieved. I think Jack at least at first will be happy not having to be the "one". That will only last so long.

Hackett said...

I agree with Jack looking relieved. It seemed to take some wind out of Sawyers sails. He wanted to hurt Jack by showing Jack that he's the boss now and has probably been practicing that speech for a looong time, only for Jack to be all "Fine by me." I'm on the Jack Team (stop it...), so i enjoyed that scene.

Very interesting, Christie. I also don't remember there being so much Dharma signage around. Can someone with the DVDs go back and check?

It would seem (which i'm sure has been mentioned before) that the show is follwing the single-timeline theory of time travel, which verifies that Ben is one devious mutha, but evil? I'm still holding out hope.

Jenn said...

I think, for the most part, how people viewed the conversation between Jack & Sawyer depends on which character you like more. As a Jack fan, I thought Jack was completely justified in asking what was going on. I mean some crazy stuff has gone on, but going back in time had to be a mind blower. Plus with Locke's warnings and them coming back to find those left behind happy, there had to be questions...

For me, Sawyer is always on the con. He doesn't have any reason to help the other three as he has it made. He has a better life than he would have if he'd never landed on the island, why allow them to screw it up? Before he was a killer and a con man. Now he's an authority figure with a nice house and someone to come home to. His "con" now is to keep his new happy life safe.

I wonder with the promo next week, if Sayid is going to try to take out little Ben and that's going to divide those who were left behind and integrated with the DI against the ones who just made it back.

Guess we'll see next week.

Alex said...

Would it be possible that all the ppl that went back to 1977 did something correctly as they were told by an apparition or significant character (Hawking)?

-hurley/guitar, Jack/shoes, sayid/handcuffs?, Kate/love? (Kate and Sayid switched places).

It seems that Sun did not bring her baby, Ben was supposed to do something that did no go right (covered in blood scene), and Lapedius shaved his coveted beard.

I deleted the show after I watched it, anyone have a link to the girl/ghost behind Sun?!?

Oh yeah, Farady is sans tie and is digging at the orchid as seen in the episode 1 of this season, and my guess is he is casually studying the donkey wheel up close and personal. Sawyer is keeping things cool back at home until Faraday can figure out a way to get things back to normal - the incident Chang mentions is most likely caused by Faraday

mary said...

juliet looks awesome. (i just had to say that)

Next weeks episode (sans Sayid part which looks exciting) seems to be one big f'n soap opera. Juliet getting insecure, Kate trying for Sawyer (whatever) I'm setting myself up for a dull epi with the latter.

I agree with Jenn...jack's question about what's going on, what are we going to do is justified. Saywers response was a power play on his part (maybe rightly so) TALK PEOPLE! I'd like to strangle a few writers. I see them laughing in their little room about this dialog.

Anonymous said...

when did we see the 3rd picture?? :S

Lolagrrl said...

Ok... Most of my questions have been asked by everyone else but here's mu input (for those interested)


- D'you think Ben & Sun did not travel back to '77 b/c they're "not supposed to be there?" Ben said he could never return... although he did... and Sun supposedly committed some kind of grave mistake back in Season 2? 3? when she shot that woman on the sub.

- I loved when SUN kissed Ben upside the head w/the oar and said, "I lied." !! :D

- However, I think there was a lot more to that statement. Remember the flashback story of Sun as a child? She really has no problem throwing anyone under the bus if she really needs to. IMHO

- I could've sworn that I saw Goodwin at the Darma check-in station w/Jack & Kate! Makes no sense time-wise tho. He would've been what? 80-years-old when he met Anna Lucia on the beach?

- Christian Sheppard ~really~ creeps me out lately!!

- I didn't see the "woman in the cabin" either... I'm wondering tho if it might be Claire? I'm saying this b/c I'm also assuming that Aaron is probably w/Sun's child back in the "real world."

- The purge is still 15 years away correct?

- Ok... this last one may have already been discussed but I'm wondering if we will eventually discover that the source of the "whispers" have anything to do w/all the time jumping that took place... like they are a course-correction or a thin spot where something changed b/c of the time jumps. Dunno... just thought. =)

Lolagrrl said...

Oops. Sorry. I forgot to sign up for the email of comments when I posted earlier.
((Does the Jedi Mind Trick))

This is not the comment you were looking for...

Aaron said...

What a great twist that Radzinksy designs the Swan only to get trapped in his own creation. Lots of room to speculate on the Swan, its original purpose, which members of the DI got absorbed into the Others (it seems now like there quite a few).

Christie, I think you're on to something regarding Otherton. It looked literally like a ghost town, which is fitting because of Christian's presence there. The village hasn't been repaired since the mercenaries bombarded it, clearly, but you're right, there's more to it than that, re the dangling signs. It looked like a set from "Nightmare on Elm Street" or something.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone else find it beyond reasonable that the 1977 photo of 'new recruits' would not have been seen by one of the Losties earlier in the show? When Christian is showing it to Sun and Frank it is 2008, correct? That photo has been hanging there for a very long time. Isn't this the same room where both Kate and Sayid were held captive by the Others at various points in time? It would seem strange to me to be locked in a room for hours without taking a good look at everything in it. Even if it were a different room the Losties used Otherville enough to explore every barrack.

I felt bad for both Jack and Sawyer in this episode. Normally I am pro-Sawyer but I think the power play of his speech was uncalled for, over the line, and shows his character hasn't totally made the transformation we are led to believe. He disappointed me. Jack, on the other, hand remains rather pathetic and powerless; but I am sure he will rise again.

-- Evan

Anonymous said...

Are we supposed to believe that sawyer is head of security and lived in Dharmaville for three years and not one of them notice a small creepy kid named Ben Linus running around.

Lolagrrl said...

Sorry for all the posts but something just popped into my head...

Last night, we did see the Pearl station correct? (The one w/all the video monitors)

We also see the guy making a model for the Swan Station...

Right now, I am assuming that Jughead is what's buried in the Swan station surrounded by all that cement.

The orientation film for the swan and the computers inside it suggest that it was one of the ~first~ stations built. Conversely, the orientation film for the Pearl is on Betamax, which suggests it came around ~after~ the Swan since that technology was available in the 70's.

(Gasp!) Did I just find a continuity error?

80sPro said...

I think the whole exchange between Sawyer and Jack was a little on the hilarious side, and definitely "hell yeah" for Sawyer and then when Jack said what he did, it sort of illustrated the whole "full circle" thing which I think someone suggested the episode was initially entitled.

But of course Lost is famous for it's double entendre. And so full circle means more than that.

Is it 15 years till the purge? Interesting question.

And yes, with five "e's" Ben our man is eeeeevil. Guy knows what's what.

Did Ben and his dad just arrive? Unlikely a new kid would give a sandwich to a Hostile or even know what a hostile is. HEY! Good question. But just because Sawyer's not talking about Ben doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about him. Maybe....

mary said...

"Are we supposed to believe that sawyer is head of security and lived in Dharmaville for three years and not one of them notice a small creepy kid named Ben Linus running around"

HA,HA,HA! HE IS A CREEPY KID! Too funny.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Good comments, all.

I think Ben has been on the Island for maybe a few weeks at most, no one would know his dad, of course. It seemed like they were giving him things to do, like give Sayid his sandwich, because he wanted to be helpful. Maybe this is how he got to know so much about the DI and all the stations. Also, he knew so much about the 815ers and the freighters, maybe not all his knowledge came from outside help.

Sun and Lapidus were on the Hydra Island, I thought, at the point they went to get the outriggers. Sun knocked Ben out and Ben was still on Hydra when Locke saw him. They eventually get to the main island,but at first, I thought all the framed photos were in the place where Ceaser took the gun and saw Faraday's notes and maps. It makes senses that they were in The Barracks, it was darker outside, and I'm going with the idea that Christie pointed outthat they had time-shifted as they got to the main island, and might have been there post-Purge but pre-Others. The Others (well, Ben) would have taken down all evidence of the DI as Ben hated his father and, by extension, the DI.

I'll go with liking Sawyer over Jack, if only because early on he tells Sawyer it doesn't matter how Locke died. Its always about Jack, and I think we are seeing where in three years, Sawyer has changed but Jack is still Jack. I can agree that Sawyer has nothing to go back to if he leaves the Island, but the whole "I got everybody home" line from Jack simply shows his arrogance. He didn't get Jin home, or Claire, or, well, he got 5 people out of 35-40 people back to L.A. Yea, Jack! (Yes, I'm being a little sarcastic here, trying to be funny sarcastic, if that's possible).

Another conundrum, and I don't think we are seeing continuity errors, more like time perception. The Hostiles/Others AND Ben (?) didn't know about the Swan, yet there Radzinsky is, building it, in full view. Plus the whole thing about which stations were built first, if Ben really hasn't been noticed by Sawyer and Juliet yet...things seem to be slightly altered since the time line changed, the whole course-correction thing.

Re: Faraday and Sawyer's comment. It reminded me of when Sawyer told Jack and Kate about Claire being gone, then saying she went off into the jungle. I think Faraday just split to go to the Orchid AND stay as far away from Charlotte as possible. His jumpsuit at the Orchid says JOE, all the others have their own names (I'm guessing since Juliet named Kate from the checklist). So I think Sawyer just knows Faraday was gone, like Claire, but not that he was dead.

I'm wondering what will happen when/if old Ben meets young Ben. Will he avoid him as Faraday is avoiding Charlotte? (Which makes me think it will be Sawyer or even Jack who is the "crazy man" she saw as a kid).

As always, looking forward to more comments.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Off-topic, did you guys know that Kermit started out as the puppet who talked up Kramel milk in the Midwest back in the 60s? I always saw the b&w commercials during GARFIELD GOOSE and BOZO, though I can't recall if Jim Henson was in the scene as well.

JK said...

It seems to me that the Barracks are totally different than what we saw in past seasons. Especially with all of the Dharma signs for new recruits dangling everywhere. It appeared as though the photos of new recruits stopped at 1978 and there might have been a blank space on the wall below for one more photo. My guess is that the Losties will do something back in 1977 that will cause the Purge (or some kind of end to the DI) much earlier than 1992.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

JK, I hadn't posted that, butI was thinking it. It does match with the Barracks looking way different than if it was simply the mercenary attack and plant overgrowth. What if it ISN'T the same kind of Purge anymore? What if the Truce gets broken and that explains the damage to the Barracks? Could Sayid being held as a Hostile blow up in their faces, and could Ben in some way instigate it?

By the way, Big, cool photo posts, you picked a couple of good ones for Juliet. You think Sam Toomey and Radzinsky are related?

Capcom said...

How did I know in advance that I should not have brought up RG?! Even here. :-p

Garfield Goose! I watched him when we lived in Valparaiso Wayne. :o)

It did seem as if Li'l Ben was grilling Sayid a bit, it seemed as if he's very curious about the Hostiles already at this point.

That's what I'm hoping about Faraday too Wayne, that he's just off doing science-y stuff with the eggheads to stay away from Charlotte.

Aaron said...

I think Ben's introduction to Sayid may have come after his meeting in the woods with Richard, at which point he no doubt developed a fascination with the Hostiles and was looking for any opportunity to check them out. It would jibe with Big's idea that Juliet will convince him to spring Ben, because that too would have to come after the meeting with Richard.

KevJones said...

Another good episode, I don't think Ben will turn out to be on the side of good after all. Something about his appearance with Sayid was very discomforting.

How about Kate on the porch? She looked shocked, impressed, and a little hurt by the character change that Sawyer seems to have undergone in the 3 years. But I'm not sure he's genuinely changed, which I predict will be revealed shortly.

I'm surprised that Sawyer and Juliet didn't
Take a little bit of time to explain the current situation to Jack, the dude just traveled through time only to become a janitor and all Sawyer does is brag about his role as head of security? I do like his thinking mans approach and I was so happy when he told jack all he did was "react," somebody needed to.

I have a feeling that Jack's name being on the manifest before the adjustments are made is a sign that Christian/Jacob is/are hard at work.

Where's Faraday? 'nuff said

KevJones said...

Another good episode, I don't think Ben will turn out to be on the side of good after all. Something about his appearance with Sayid was very discomforting.

How about Kate on the porch? She looked shocked, impressed, and a little hurt by the character change that Sawyer seems to have undergone in the 3 years. But I'm not sure he's genuinely changed, which I predict will be revealed shortly.

I'm surprised that Sawyer and Juliet didn't
Take a little bit of time to explain the current situation to Jack, the dude just traveled through time only to become a janitor and all Sawyer does is brag about his role as head of security? I do like his thinking mans approach and I was so happy when he told jack all he did was "react," somebody needed to.

I have a feeling that Jack's name being on the manifest before the adjustments are made is a sign that Christian/Jacob is/are hard at work.

Where's Faraday? 'nuff said

KevJones said...

....I'm an idiot, sorry for the double post

KevJones said...

Nice Memento connection, the only thing I would say is that the film has what appears to be two different storylines until the end when the two converge and unveil the grand finale. Maybe that's what Lost is doing? If the two groups from Ajira 316 are separated by time, then do they also have to converge before the final act? Christian sure made it seem that way with the "journey" comment to Sun.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Big's connection to MEMENTO is perfect and everyone should watch this film. KevJones, I've actually triple-posted, back in the days when Big had only about ten commenters, which really made me feel dorky.

Makes sense that Ben had already met Richard. Hmnn, if Richard finally had the time travelling thing right in his head, maybe he told young Ben to stay away from Sawyer, et al.

Also, you think Smokey was outside the Barracks because Ben had pretty much released him/it to get the mercenaries and never closed the Cerberus Vent before they split for the Orchid?

Mark Clouden said...

WRT Ben in 1977 - my take on it was that his visit to Sayid was post-Bens crossing outside the fence and his bumping in to Alpert. I dont think that Ben is paying Sayid a visit out of curiosity and - maybe im just filling in one too many blanks, but ill bet that while the sandwich comes without mustard that it does come with a side of lead. Sayid has been around long enough to act cool, and Ben is just that friggin sneaky.

I would guess then that Ben is not newly on the island, and that Sawyer just hasnt bothered to mention it. I mean, Sawyer probably has a great insight in to just what the DI is doing, he hasnt filled in everyone on every last detail about them either.

dj said...

Big! How could Amelia and Amy be one and the same? They both know Juliet individually. Wouldn't that be a bit weird? Would she remember?

dj said...

Oh also...

"1) Who is the woman behind Sun in the cabin? Was it just a stagehand got caught in the shot and the producers missed it, or is she integral to the story?"

Someone else already said it, but it's Claire. Gotta be. If it's a mistake, then it could simply be explained away as Claire. =) But yeah she's been hanging out with Christian, so one can only assume...

And dude -- the young Ben does such a fantastic job! Watch his eyes as he asks, "are you a Hostile?" He mimicks Michael Emerson's mannerisms perfectly!

Jerry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jerry said...

Don't think the woman in the cabin was meant to be there. She's hidden in the scene, but not in a seemingly purposeful way. If they wanted to put a mysterious woman in the cabin, I doubt they would've made her jerk her head like that - kind of removes the mysterious / ethereal nature of her unseen character.

Love how Hurley has been assigned as a Chef

3D said...

Scott said...

"Ok, so clearly, the Ajira plane crashed in 2007, but the losties jumped back to 1977... I presume New Otherton is so dilapidated b/c it's been 3 years since anyone's been there."

That wasn't "new Otherton" they were in... it was the DHARMA greeting module.

Rambling Thoughts of Poohbear said...

As usual, great comments all.

Big, thanks for the food for thought regarding how everything is linining up. Rad and Juliet. I could see that. As probably one of the few who has NOT seen Memento, I guess I better check it out, huh?

Wayne Allen Sallee, your comments regarding Jack and his not changing was right on point. Noticing how affected Sawyer was with learning how Locke died, Jack could have taken a few moments to explain what happened. Watch, Jack will NOT happy being 'workman' for long. His ego won't allow it.

I'm even going to go out on the limb and say that I really don't think Jack has YET have the 'faith' (sorry, 80sPro). I think it's more of a hit the bottom of the barrell and have no place to go. Can redemption come for Jack? Yes. I don't think he's 'seen the face of his father' yet.

While the unraveling of happy paradise for Sawyer and company had to happen, I think Jack and Kate will speed it up.

Have a great one, everyone...

neaux said...

nothing to say everyone else hasn't said..

just wondering if Miles may have been on the island as a baby, you think after 3 years he might have raised a few of his own questions?

Anonymous said...

Possible Daniel left on that submarine 3 years earlier?

machramm said...

In case you haven't yet seen the person behind Sun in the cabin here are a couple links:

http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/2009/03/19/lost-episode-5%C3%9709-%E2%80%9Cnamaste%E2%80%9D-screencaps-easter-eggs-audio-analysis/

http://blogs.msg.com/themonitor/2009/03/19/lost-thoughts-who-is-behind-sun-in-the-cabin-with-christian/

I went back and watched that scene in standard defininition and couldn't see a thing. I think HD might have made it easier to see. The scene was very dark anyway.

I have heard there is a video link of the scene online somewhere but have not been able to find it.

I don't think the person was meant to be seen.

machramm said...

Something else I just remembered noticing...

When the Ajira 316 plane started to experience turbulence, the woman escorting Sayid had no reaction at all. Did she know what was about to happen?

Also, when she was awakened she muttered a name. I thought she said "Tara"?

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Capcom said...

Poohbear, your comment about Jack needing to hit rock-bottom really made me think about how he is totally addicted to whatever it is he's addicted to, that is, complete control, thoughtless reactions, being faithless, whatever. Like CS said, he just can't let go. And he probably won't until something really breaks him. And I mean REALLY breaks him, not the whiney half-controlled breakdowns he's had so far. He might have to be in a place where he realizes that he has no place to go but up, if TPTB ae taking it there.

Capcom said...

Your right Machramm, she looked calm and collected, didn't she?

Anonymous said...

Now that little Ben and his dad are on the island I wonder if Sawyer is going to recognize his old drinking buddy, Roger Workman?

Btw, I loved little Ben's line, "I'm Ben." It's as if he is announcing, "I'm THAT Ben" instead of just saying the more common phrase, "My name is Ben."

-- Biff

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@3D Thanks, man. The greeting place near the Pala Ferry! I was waffling, thinking Sun and Lapidus were still on Hydra, then decided that (it being night), that they were at the Barracks. Of course they would dock at the Ferry and see the Greeting area first. Was that building still around when Juliet first arrived? What I queried about Smokey might still hold true, Ben left the Cerberus Vent open and the Barracks can't be too far away from the Pala dock.

@Poohbear MEMENTO is a great film and it isnt NARNIA (in relationship to LOST), but worth seeing. The first I knew of it, a writer friend commented that he couldn't believe an idea like this wasn't pitched before. I rented MEMENTO at the same time as FRAILTY, both films were in Chicago art house theaters for all of two weeks.

Re: Jack/Sawyer, I rewatched the episode last night, and while I'm still on Sawyer's side, I can see where in the barracks exchange Sawyer is a little defensive, but I also think its because of the arrivals. I had actually forgotten the entire Jack/Juliet thing until she opened the door.

Hey, while you're hunting down MEMENTO, download "Ride, Captain, Ride" and groove on hippie music that makes me think of the Black Rock.

I kinda want to see Ben's dad. He and Jack will likely run into each other as they do the same scut work. And I'm waiting for the inevitable moment when Jack sees Christian and pees his pants as he does that eye-flutter thing.

JLes said...

Great Comments people...just thought I'd share a few thoughts:

1) There is definitely a person behind Sun. No chance that was an accident (what is this, amateur hour? Actually, it might be...see point 2). I also think it's Charlotte, not Claire, just based on what appears to be red hair. Not sure there... just a thought

2) I just listened to podcast from the producers and I was PISSED to learn that they made an official mistake in Season 4. They apparently wrote 1970 into Ben Linus's dialogue about Charlotte's history, but Rebecca Mader (the actress) didn't want to age herself, and told Michael Emerson to change her year of birth to 1979, her actual year of birth. (she didn't know anything about Time Travel at that point) Ben was SUPPOSED to say she was born in 1970, which then explains why she was roughly 4 years old when we saw our LOSTies at the Barracks in 1974. BOOOOOOOOOO Producers..... BOOOOOO Rebecca Mader. That is BUSH-LEAGUE. You guys better fix that on the LOST 6-Season DVD Box Set Extravaganza so my future children don't go MAD trying to figure out that discrepancy when I force them to watch this show.

WHO CALLED THAT BABY WAS ETHAN!!?!! CHECK. THAT. RECORD.

Boooooooyah.....count it.

Blue Eyed Monster said...

One quick comment.

I believe Sun and Ben were unable to go back to 1977 because they are already there (as children). this would also explain why Charlotte's body didn't flash.

As Always,
Phil

Anonymous said...

Great Posts All!

I may be way off here, but is it possible that Amy was not going to be killed by the others-but taken and then later inpregnated- since the others couldn't have kids(thus Ethan)? But after the Losties intervened there had to be a course correction by having Amy and Horace get together? Maybe Ethan had to be born one way or another.

And is there any chance that Horace is Jacob? Possibly that several of the Dharma actually were involved in the Purge and may have even placed other bodies in their jumpsuits before being thrown into the pit to stage it?

As always, Big's site has the blog and posts that I can't wait to read after a show! Gigi

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Re: Roger "Workman." One thing that aggravates me about LOST is how so many characters keep "secrets", like Kate not telling Jack about the medical station. (He's a doc, shouldn't he know, like RIGHT AWAY?) But then there are the incidents like Sawyer and the beer. He knew Roger in 1977 and certainly remembers the skeleton in 2004, and maybe even knows Ben is his son. So it will be cool when we see Jack and Roger running into each other, another Jack-being-oblivious moment.

Re: Amy/Amelia. Maybe quite a few DI went over to the Others before the Purge, maybe as they realized their original Hanso Group plan had been corrupted by Widmore and (I suppose) Mittlewerk. I can truly see some of Dharma saying screw this, I can't get off the Island, and Others aren't really as bad as we thought. Don't forget that Ethan was working on Juliet's plumbing when Amelia stopped by. Might be a tell, might not. But an interesting thought, Big.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Oh, and about Rebecca Mader and the whole vanity about age thing, I saw her on CHELSEA LATELY (a guilty pleasure, I admit, I watch the rerun at 1:30 AM after I quit writing). Made was on at the end of the show, Chelsea Handler said remind the audience when LOST was on, she replied along the lines of, what do I care, I'm dead on the show. She said it laughingly, but yea, why would the producers cave on this? She'd be 34 instead of 23? I'd have just gotten another actress, and I'm sorry I'm talking like I'm working for TMZ.

But, yea, JLes, boo on them for caving in. On the up side, maybe they killed her off quicker than planned, ha ha. Doubtful, but a nice thought.

Anonymous said...

The reason Sun did not flash to 1977 is because she never went there in the original timeline. When Desmond changed things that led to the 06 leaving it did a couple of things, one it probably saved Sun as she may? have died because of her pregnancy. More importantly it prevented these select people from going back in time to do whatever they were meant to do. When they came into contact with the island's "forces" it corrected this by taking the people who were meant to be there and sent them back.


One thing that bugged me was the turning of the wheel and what Desmond did by saving Charlie. If he did not save Charlie would the Wheel have needed to be turned, it not then how would these people go back in time. It had always happened and Ethan is the proof of that. Maybe I have the time travel thing wrong. Any help would be appreciated.

Anonymous said...

Ben and Sun can't go back because they are already there. I think Sun is Pierre Changs daughter that had to listen to the record in the morning on the first episode. Widmore must have given Sun away at some point and sentcher to Korea. That has to be the only explanation cause Ben didn't go back either and John was dead at the time. Ben and Sun are the only other "originals" that didn't go back and you have to assume Sun didn't go back for the same reason as Ben and that's because you can't. Be two places at once. Didn't to love how Juliet gave the baby back once she found out it was Ethan? Classic. Faraday is atcthecwheel bcause they haven't addressed what we thought was a flashback...when he was down there with Chang. -Gina Marie

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Gina Marie--true, the opening episode was 1977, not 1973, good point. He's there, too, to stay away from 4 yr old Charlotte at the Barracks. Maybe the Orchid workers live in a separate place because of the dangers of the exotic energy, you know, like being sanitized the way those who work in nuclear reactors are.

@Anonymous two posts above, Big (and others) have described the time travel thing as two-pronged, the wheel turning AND the O6 leaving. The consensus seems to be that if Des had let Charlie die before he ever got to the Looking Glass, there would have been no freighter rescue. It was about Charlie being the only musician who could type a password as chords. And with no freighter rescue, the wheel didn't need to be turned.

It would be a GREAT reveal if Sun was Chang's baby, as so many people have suggestions of their own, but I'm leaning that having Sun and Lapidus in 2007 and meeting Christian adds an element to the storyline. Sun/Jin is as important as Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Juliet. Also, we've seen Sun's ruthlessness over the past two seasons. Will she consider doing something selfish in order to be with Jin? Whatever goes on, I'll be happy with a few scenes of Sun, Lapidus, and ghost Christian. (Maybe Claire, too?)

My comments echoing JLes earlier weren't meant to be mean-spirited towards Rebecca Mader. I'm a writer and have learned not to make certain demands (reflecting changing Charlotte's year of birth) or blowing off giving credit to a magazine or publisher that helped my career (her comments on the tv show I mentioned). I wsas looking at it from my standpoint, but it wasn't meant to be anything against her. No one has questioned me on this, I just thought I should add this.

Becky said...

Chang's baby is a boy so it can't be Sun.
It would be strange if Amy and Amelia turn out to be the same person since one has brown eyes and one has blue.
If that painting is Juliet, the artist was not very good. And the woman in the painting is holding a hamster, much, much bigger than a field mouse.

dj said...

I think you can be in two places at once. It's 1977, yes? Certainly some of the people ported back to 1977 were alive as children already... they can't all be THAT young! ...err, are they?

Just saying that I don't buy that theory of why Charlotte had to die and why Ben and Sun didn't port back. Something else is going on with that. It may be as simple as, well, the ones who ported back were supposed to be there, and those who weren't ported back were NOT supposed to be there... to influence certain events...

JK said...

I was thinking Sun couldn't go back because Locke promised Jin he wouldn't bring her back. Or because Locke wasn't the one who recruited her - like he was supposed to. Just like Ben turned the wheel like he wasnt supposed to. I think it may be part of Locke being so "special." Along those lines I think/hope we are going to find out more about the "missing time" right before the Ajira flight which will give us insight as to "why" the rest of the O6 came back to the island. I'd guess Widmore is heavily involved.

Capcom said...

I think that it would be freaky if Jin turned out to be a Dharma baby since his hussy mom didn't even know who the father was. Do I really think it's this? No. :o)

Capcom said...

P.S. I've been thinking of the whole dang island as the Mystery Ship since hearing that song Wayne! :-D

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

As you should, Capcom. Blues Image only had the one hit, I think it was cool they at least got a royalty hit from LOST.

Funny how dj and JK posted about the same thing in opposite ways. JK is right, Sun was the only one (that we know of, did he recruit Sayid?) that Locke never TALKED to. Sayid wanted nothing to do with things while they were at the docks, but he seemed pretty sincere when he was with Hurley. Maybe Locke recruited him and his faith (or whatever) evaporated over time. And Ben was not to have turned the wheel, true.

Yet, dj has a point, too. It might be a simple set up for the show's progression, as what better way for Jin and Sun not be together is by separating them in time? A certain amount of viewers will be hooked on that element, but also I want to think that there will be a Christian/Sun/Lapidus mini-adventure. What is great about the way the writers have set the separation of the O6 up is that there are so many interpretations of who is where and when and why.

One goofy thought in my head is how Ben does certain things he is not supposed to (turn the wheel) and Locke seems to make a lot of wrong decisions not just through his entire life but on Island as well.

I'm sometimes thinking this "record" has been playing over and over, it is Ben who pushes Locke's buttons the right way because it took several repititions of the same events to get it right. Maybe he had expected THIS TIME to be the last time, and he was escaping the Island for good. That would have worked 100% if the O6 hadn't been able to leave.

Just a crazy thought of mine, but its like, what IF S1-S4 have repeated over and over in subtle ways and the main reason for the course correction (S5-S6) is to get the record to play repeatedly again (the worm eating its own tail)?

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Nice bullet points, Big. The Swan WAS bigger though, wasn't it? Part of it was blocked off because of the Incident, if you take that VIA DOMUS game into effect, it seems there's a big area behind the cemented wall. But, yea, it looked big, and by the way we saw Radzinsky portrayed, maybe it was him knowing he had the keys to the toybox then being told to scale back. I can see that.

Perhaps Christian immediately looked for the 1977 photo because he KNEW in 2007 that Jack, etc., had ALREADY done something in 1977, or maybe Christian talks with Richard and Richard gave him the dilly-o.

The woman with the headphones? Easy one, it was Claire listening to "Ride, Captain, Ride" at high volume. Yea, last time I'll bring that up. I never really gave thought that Mystery Ship needn't be the Black Rock but could easily be Oceanic or Ajira.

Enjoying the thread. I laugh when I look back at your 2006 Catastrophe post and see 0 COMMENTS. Ha.

Anonymous said...

To Wayne

If Ethan, assuming that it is the same Ethan, is alive wouldn't that mean that the wheel had always been turned, and Sawyer(or someone) always saved Amy.



Dead Charlie = No wheel, no rescue, no time travel

Alive Charlie = Turned Wheel rescue and time travel.

Also wouldn't Ben be blaming Jack for his "daughter" being killed.

Anonymous said...

Had to smirk at Security Phil's response of "All Righty then!" upon realising that Kate's name was on the revised New Recruits list. Maybe a copy of Ace Ventura : Pet Detective found its way back to 1977 :)) "You've lost your pet boar you say Mr. LaFleur well all righty then!" .... OMG maybe Kate is Finkle !!!

Lee

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Anon anon above: I was trying to help that one person understand the time travel thing, re the Charlie being saved to restart the sonar beacon. I've always believed that everything that happened in '54, '73' and '77 happened, because the show has been giving us example of the chicken or the egg for some time now. Its actually a good way to define the importance of the redshirts. Frogurt gets killed by flaming arrows in 1954 because he was never important to the Ben/Widmore game. Sawyer was there--a better example is Juliet--because he needed to save Amy (and it WAS Juliet who killed the first Other). Juliet helps Amy give birth to Ethan who will then almost force Charlie and Claire into a sort of love thing that Charlie would do anything, even die, for her. I really do think these events happened because they were supposed to, just as Locke gave Richard back a compass that was never his to begin with, because...well, who knows what the rest of S5 will entail.

I think that the line about "changing the rules" last season after Alex is killed will mean quite a lot. I have no clue why Ben doesn't blame Jack more for calling the freighter, but I can assume it is because Ben intends to use Jack all the way to the last scenes of the series.

KoreAmBear said...

I wonder what this edition of the whispers said -- when Sun and Lapidus met Christian. For those who have missed it, there are transcripts of the whispers on lostpedia:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Whisper_transcripts

It's pretty interesting. Like the one in Season 2, it appears that it is a dead Boone whispering and talking about Shannon ("she drives me crazy") and someone telling him to "relax; she likes him". Many of the LOSTIEs have been named in these whispers, and one of the more intriguing ones is the "it will all come around" one by Sawyer's murder victim. Sorry if most of you guys know all about this.

Greg Tramel said...

there is definitely some twinning/mirror/doppleganging going on but i don’t think Radzinsky and Leonard are the “same” person; the woman taking care of Teresa looks an awful lot like Eloise Hawking and we have seen many other look-alikes and have heard dialogue about look-alikes not to mention the while bad twin thing, I could swear we have already seen Ben’s doppelganger

maybe the order of jacob's well is creating clones

order of jacob's well

DakranII said...

I haven't read through all the other comments yet, but a quick scan didn't pull up "mist" or "fog".

Did anyone else think it looked like a fog or mist rolled into the room when Christian was talking to Sun? The door opened and it looked to me like something came in.

I'll have to rewatch it.

KoreAmBear said...

In regards to that person behind Sun, even if it were purposeful, it didn't look like Claire. The person (she did look like a woman) had darker (sligthly blondish) hair which is nothing like Claire's hair color. Wow, that would be a huge gaffe, if this person was really a stage hand and her making onto Namaste, was not purposeful (does she get royalties?). I guess Darlton's podcast will clear this up at some point? When is the next one?

KoreAmBear said...

Oh, one more thing. On another site, someone mentioned that on the Class of 77 pic that Christian picked up, it shows Hurley's face looking straight into the camera. On the live shot at Dharma land, Hurley goes "Nama-what?" and turns to Kate when the shutter goes off. Glitch or purposeful? You never know with the Darlton.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@KoreAmBear, I'm guessing the photographer had to take the photo over, it was one of those subtle jokes. What I thought odd was that the biggest guy in the group ends up front row.

Thx for bringing up the whispers. Interesting stuff.

Anonymous said...

Sandman here again..I am still perplexed as to who the woman in the room behind Sun in the scene w/ Christian is? Has anyone officially answered this or even discussed it? It's driving me mad!!! Does she only show up in HD viewing? Inquiring minds want to know.

Capcom said...

Dakran, there are some screencaps of Smokey in the doorway at DarkUFO. I'd post them here, but a download is chewing up my computer right now and it's going too slow to look it up. Check the screencaps tab at the top of Dark's site. :-)

DakranII said...

Must be this one you are referring to: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-pGkeGjJTvs/Scg5Jho6CqI/AAAAAAAAIMk/Cnbp1TbYUZQ/s1600-h/ChristianFrankSun.jpg

Yes, it definitely is smog of some kind. It doesn't look like there is any fog in the previous pictures from the town.

Regarding the girl in scene behind Sun, I believe that it was a crew member from the set and a mistake. The show doesn't usually hide things like that, and most people watching the show seem to have missed it. In fact the opposite, they are usually punctuated with thrilling music. DUN DUN...DUN DUN and some screechy violinish type sound. She's wearing a black t-shirt with some sort of white logo on it that might even be LOST. Just seems to stage-hand-like.

@KoreAmBear, I think Hurley saying "namas-what?" was after the picture was taken. But I do remember thinking "wait, his head is turned there, but straight in the picture" so maybe I'm confused.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

I looked up the screen caps on the woman in the background. This might just be the HD thing, as Big and and a few of you have mentioned. I couldn't see her at all. I'd hold out for it being Claire (if it wasn't a mistake) because Locke saw her and Christian in Jacob's cabin for SOME reason, but if it was a mistake, maybe by the time it was caught, John Terry was already gone and they couldn't re-shoot the scene. (If he needed to be there, aside from Sun, I don't know who all is in that same shot). I suppose if we see her again in another Christian scene, we'll know. I realize everything cannot be addressed on the show, but I'd have thought Hurley might have asked where Claire was, unless he finally let it sink in over the years that she was most likely dead. Tough show to do, its not like the writers let things dangle, there's just not enough time.

Bigmouth said...

There's some confusion about where exactly Sun and Frank meet Christian. We don't actually see how long they walk through from the dock. After reviewing the other footage, however, I'm pretty sure their encounter takes place inside the Barracks. It's the same building we see Jack and Co. processed earlier in the episode, and where Ben and his father were taken in the the Man Behind the Curtain, which I'm guessing is a short distance through the jungle -- just long enough that you wouldn't want groggy recruits walking it alone.

While there is a structure by the dock, you can see here that it is smaller and painted blue, not yellow. Notice, as well, the blue vans in the background waiting to take the new arrivals for processing. Here's a picture of the much larger building where Ben and his father were actually processed. The processing center also should not be confused with the rec room, where Kate and Sawyer each have been held prisoner at various points.

Lolagrrl: Do you mean the monitors that Miles was watching? If so, I don't think that was a station -- it seemed to be inside the sonar fence.

80sPro: Like Aaron and Mark Clouden, I'm assuming that Ben's sandwich scene occurs after he's already met Alpert. This is part of his effort to let the Others join them.

Wayne and JK: Hmmm...I attributed the dilapidated state of the Barracks to the violence wrought by Keamy and Co. then the Monster. But I have to admit, this notion of hastening the Purge strikes me as verrrry plausible and interesting!

KevJones: I think Juliet was just able to replace some, but not all, of the manifests in time. But I absolutely love the comparison between Memento's converging storylines and those of Sun and Jin in the present and past. Interestingly, as I noted in my recap of Ji-Yeon, that episode fits this Memento model, too, also foreshadowing their eventual convergence. Christian's comment seemed to imply that Sun will have to travel into the past to be reunited with Jin. But what if their reunion actually takes place in the present -- with Jin now an old man!

dj: Amelia may simply assume it's a coincidence that she met two similar looking women named Juliet decades apart. Or maybe she's keeping the information secret for some reason we don't yet know. Either way, it's interesting that Amelia has obvious affection for Juliet that could reflect the knowledge the latter will save the former in the past.

machramm: I caught that too. Maybe there will be a flashback involving Tara?

Anonymous: Since indications are they were always there in the past, I think we can assume the Wheel would have been turned regardless. Desmond meddling with fate to save Charlie may have changed who turned the wheel and why. Locke was probably supposed to turn it shortly after Dan, Charlotte, and Miles landed on the Island. Keamy and Co. weren't originally part of the picture -- and neither was Alex's death. But the big change, as Wayne notes, was the rescue of the O6. Whatever was supposed to happen, the Wheel should have been turned before they left...

Sandman: Still no official answer -- here's a link to the podcast page for Namaste on lostpedia.

KoreAmBear said...

Biggy - who is going to play Jin as the old man? James Hong? That would be cool, haha.

Maybe Sun is going to have an affair with Lapidus. Come on, who didn't have that passing thought?

I saw LOST untangled and they had a model of the light blue VW Bus. Is something like that on sale? I would love one of those buses in my office, with the Dharma logo on it. Anyone?

Thanks again Biggy.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Idaho:

Great posts. I love reading the blog every week. 2 things, and they may have been covered already by comments. (sorry, didn't want to wade thru 83 of them)
1) Jack has been assigned as a workman, wasn't that the same job given to Ben's dad?!? Which means I can't wait to see that interaction/episode.
2) Namaste has me starting to think the "Incident" may be brought about by the O-6 turning the donkey wheel to get back to "current/present" time 2007? 2008? This would light up the sky and cause something to happen back in '77 or later. Is there a time frame for when the Incident actually happened?
3) sorry, just remembered...what the heck happened to Rose and Bernard?!?

Greg Tramel said...

(1) yep Ben's dad is (was) also a workman

(2)doesn't the episode "prove" multiverses? at the saame "place" in 2 different times

(3) we still don't know what happend to Zack and Emma much less Rose and Bernhard

KoreAmBear said...

There's a new post on the whispering going on at the Dharma Processing Center with Christian and Sun, but no one can really decipher at this point:

http://lostwhispering.blogspot.com/

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Big, I had been waffling on exactly where Sun & Lapidus were, and we certainly haven't seen all of the housing units. They must have continually built more for the newest recruits.

Do you think Jack was hired as a janitor because the aptitude test was for one of the recruits that backed out? Could it be that Juliet only changed the names on the manifest?

Ilana, I believe, said "Jarrah?" to Ceaser, Sayid's last name. At least it shows that Ilana wasn't being too friendly to him. I'm kind of curious as to why she wasn't handcuffed to Sayid, just as Kate wasn't handcuffed to Mars. Is that common on flights?

@GregTramel good point on Zack, Emma, and even Cindy. Wouldn't the tailenders have bounced around in time as well? Could something in the ruins or the temple have locked them in, if that's a good phrase?

This, as well as a few subtle things, seem to be a tell that the past is being altered or maybe being fixed. I don't really think that the creators are headed this way, but I could see the possibility that this is NOT the first time the Island needed course-correcting. Maybe it wasn't needed in the present, but in the past (1973-7). For whatever insane reason, Ms. Hawking wanted to make certain Ethan was born, as well as other as yet unseen events, maybe Faraday's work at the Orchid. The course-correcting might be to have the Purge happen sooner, perhaps to get Ben out of the way by killing him as a kid. As such, the 1977ers are being played, Richard and the rest will make a move much quicker. I truly think, if it does play this way, that Faraday will have accelerated the use of the donkey wheel and the Hostiles just cannot have that happen. They'll start the Purge to keep the wheel from being used.

Hoping to see this hit 100 posts, Big.

neaux said...

one quick note, if you've seen the previews for tonight's episode... you know that something big goes down on the Dharma camp.

but I was rewatching last week's episode at lunch today and noticed that Christian points out 1978's recruitment photo before finding 1977's photo.

So whatever happens tonight, obviously doesn't effect the overall flow of Dharma's camp in the long run as its business as usual in 1978.

KoreAmBear said...

Hey guys, I don't know all the mythological references and other literary and pop culture allusions as well as you guys (although I loved the Little Prince and Archie Jughead references), but what I can offer is more my knowledge of the Bible.

Recently my minister was talking about Moses and that gave me some thoughts on a parallel with Jack (I know, now even church is about LOST!).

I also recently saw Stranger in a Strange Land on Sci-Fi channel. The creepy other lady in that episode told Jack that the girl in Phuket wrote on his tattoo, "he walks amongst us but he is not one of us." Also, the lady, Ahjoura or something (sounds like Ajira?) played by Bai Ling, said Jack was a leader and a great man and she marked him accordingly.

Well, Moses, after growing up an Egyptian and he killed an Egyptian to help his people - was rejected by his people early on, and he fled to Midian. See some of the paralles to Jack in this passage from Exodus Chapter 2:

Moses Flees to Midian
11 One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. 12 Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. 13 The next day he went out and saw two Hebrews fighting. He asked the one in the wrong, "Why are you hitting your fellow Hebrew?"
14 The man said, "Who made you ruler and judge over us? Are you thinking of killing me as you killed the Egyptian?" Then Moses was afraid and thought, "What I did must have become known."

15 When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian, where he sat down by a well. 16 Now a priest of Midian had seven daughters, and they came to draw water and fill the troughs to water their father's flock. 17 Some shepherds came along and drove them away, but Moses got up and came to their rescue and watered their flock.

18 When the girls returned to Reuel their father, he asked them, "Why have you returned so early today?"

19 They answered, "An Egyptian rescued us from the shepherds. He even drew water for us and watered the flock."

20 "And where is he?" he asked his daughters. "Why did you leave him? Invite him to have something to eat."

21 Moses agreed to stay with the man, who gave his daughter Zipporah to Moses in marriage. 22 Zipporah gave birth to a son, and Moses named him Gershom, [b] saying, "I have become an alien in a foreign land."

23 During that long period, the king of Egypt died. The Israelites groaned in their slavery and cried out, and their cry for help because of their slavery went up to God. 24 God heard their groaning and he remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob. 25 So God looked on the Israelites and was concerned about them.

Some themes running through this. Moses was Egyptian -- that whole Egyptian thing on the island. But then Moses is going to free his people from the Egyptians. He became a shepherd. There was a well. Moses became a stranger in a strange land but eventually th leader of his people.

Finally, later on, God told Moses to use Aaron's (!) staff and turn it into a snake, as a sign to Pharoah.

And I thought of the parallel of the staff and snake, with the symbol of the medical profession, the staff and snake curling around it.

Anyway, these thoughts intrigued me. Can't wait for "He's Our You." Namaste.

Alex said...

2 Things...

Everyone is asking about Bernard and Rose - what about the others and hiding at their safe haven "The Temple". Do you think this is where Lapidus and Sun will go? Will they come out possessed like Russo's crew?

The Whispers - I read the whispers on LostPedia a couple months back and think some of the things they say are pretty cool. They also happen at key moments of events that "need" to happen or are "destined" to happen. As with the common recurring theme of LOST, "everything happens for a reason", these whispers are ensuring events happen. My guess is this is triggered by the Island/Cerebus/Jacob/Christian to lead the characters down the correct path.

KoreAmBear said...

It's funny though that the whispers are not dramatic or anything, at least in content. It sounds like people hanging out, playing cards, cooking, observing -- their words are almost in a very informal, trivial context like they are watching a TV show "who's coming? Don't answer. That's Lapidus." Etc. The only one that seemed super eerie was the recurring "it will come back around."

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Thx again for the post about Moses, KoreAmBear. I always thought the whispers sometimes involved a dead 815er, like explaining "that's Lapidus" to someone who died before Frank was ever on the show. Yet, at the same time, there are people I know (and at times watch the show with) that forget, well, Lapidus is a perfect example as he didn't have his beard when he appeared from the Ajira cockpit. So, yeah, some of the whispers might be tongue-in-cheek, like the viewers trying to squeeze into the screen to watch every little detail.

beer said...

it seems more likely that ben's painting is of his mother. hence, juliet looks just like her.