Wednesday, March 11, 2009

What I Meant to Say...

One minor frustration of blogging about Lost is that there's no easy way for commenters to "bump" old posts like you can on an internet bulletin board. Sure, I could just repost a speculation or recap, but I would lose all your comments, which defeats the purpose. I particularly think this discourages folks from discussing episodes that have already aired.

So, at the excellent suggestion of Wayne Allen Sallee, I'm opening the discussion up this week to your comments about anything and everything that's happened on the show thus far. Forget to mention something really cool after your favorite past episode? Let us know! Have a question about some prior speculation advanced on this blog? Fire away!

It doesn't even need to be completely serious. For example, here's something that I meant to say following the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. I frankly found it amusing the way Locke rolled over and vomited after landing in the Tunisian desert. Disturbing...but also kind of funny the way spontaneous barfing can be. See, e.g., Monty Python.



I couldn't help wondering if this was a college football reference. Last season, Kevin Barnes of Maryland hit California Golden Bears receiver Jahvid Best so hard that the latter barfed a bizarre neon-green substance. Within hours, clips of the hit were all over the internet with titles like "What Did Jahvid Best Eat for Breakfast?" Answer: "we called it Gatorade."



The puking parallel strikes me as deeply significant and a potential game changer. There have been other sports shoutouts -- e.g., the writers have joked that the name Kevin Johnson was a reference to the former Cal and Phoenix Suns point guard of the same name. I wonder if anyone on the staff is a college sports fan generally, or alum of U.C. Berkeley specifically...

78 comments:

KoreAmBear said...

That's hilarious Biggy. Being a Cal alum (and you know who I am), props for getting in the Jahvid Best reference. The two pukes were eerily similar. I look forward to someone at Dharma named Kevin Riley.

And yah, the whole Kevin Johnson thing (amazing that he is the Mayor of Sacto). You have just made the possibility of my head exploding, as you have connected two of my favorite things ever -- Cal football and LOST. I'm deeply appreciative that you did not reference Jim Harbaugh or anything Stanford in this blog. Ack! I just did!!!

The March Hare said...

Hey Bigmouth.

We've now seen the back of a statue (possibly Anubis), ankhs, temple hieroglyphs, and our forever young friend, Mr. Alpert, who share the old Egyptian custom of wearing mascara. Egyptian eye makeup serves as a protective shield or a personal amulet against the evil spirits. According to their belief, an unadorned eye corresponds to an unprotected eye. This will make a person vulnerable to what they refer to as the “Evil Eye”.

What do you think Richard's connection to ancient Egypt might be? Do you think Richard was on the Island when the 4 toed statue was first built?

Anonymous said...

What do the others do for fun?

The March Hare said...

Forgot to add on the sports theme...
Guy Damien Lafleur. One the greatest hockey players of all time...was at his peak during the 1970's. Around the same time Sawyer decided to use his name as a cover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Lafleur

Maybe?? or maybe the writers just were fans of Vince Vaughn's character from Dodgeball!

KoreAmBear said...

What do Others do for fun? Go to Ross to try out new apparel? Oh yeah, no Ross back then. Maybe a Woolworth.

Guy Lafleur - great reference. I thought of that as well. I grew up a L.A. Kings fan and oddly enough (well because only 1 west coast team) we were in the same division as Les Habitants (the Canadians). Biggy, how about a Marcel Dionne link to LOST?

Maybe Damien is a reference. Here in Hawaii (where I live), there is a father Damien, who is about to be given Sainthood. I don't know the full story, but he was a Mother Teresa type, selfless, who contracted leprosy and lived on a leper colony on the island of Molokai. There is a private school named after him here in Honolulu.

While I'm here, I wrote this on another board:

Doc Jensen mentioned in his current write up that the anagram for Namaste -- “me Satan” -- that's a trip. I guess we're going to know about Dr. Chang aka Marvin Candle aka Halliwax, in the next ep. on the 18th.

As for Amy and Horace’s baby. You know, in the Bible, Jacob was born as a twin, with Esau coming out first and Jacob holding onto his leg coming out. First of all, that reminds of the breach that Amy had whereupon the internist had to call Juliet in. But second, Esau turned out to be a really rough and tumble (a hunter), brusque type of guy – remind of the hockey goon called Ethan? Jacob stole everything from Ethan – his birthright and his blessing, from their father, Isaac. Of course, Benjamin was the youngest son of Jacob – one of the two (other was Joseph) that was born to Rachel, who had a hard time conceiving and delivering. And then you have this thing called Jacob’s well, where Jesus met the Samaritan women in John 5. I haven’t connected the dots, but I thought I would throw that out there.

Lolagrrl said...

I was reading somewhere that some people think the Giant four-toed statue is actually Taweret. This makes ~perfect~ sense to me especially since "Taweret became seen, very early in Egyptian history, as a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

OK, here's the thing I brought up with Big, what if, say, I wanted to comment on "Jughead" at the point everyone is discussing "LeFleur"? (Since I mentioned that, I was wondering if James came up with that name simply because he had the French expedition fresh in his mind? He did tell Miles it was Creole...)

Regardless of that, why would the US military fight the Others in the first place? If they saw that Richard, Widmore, et. al., were on the Island, why not report to their superiors and just go to another Island? They weren't there for the exotic energy, right? What made them fight? Could it be that Richard is lying about the fight, that the Hostiles/Others flat out ambushed the US Army and executed them? Did Widmore tell Richard that Jacob wanted them dead?

I'm curious to read what, um, others have to say about Richard and Widmore and the events of 1954. I'm looking at you, Big. Maybe NetProphet, as well. OK, well, everyone. Maybe we need a Richard Alpert prize, I'll send someone at random an I HEART MY MAYBELLINE t-shirt with Alpert winking slyly.

Anonymous said...

One thing I've always hoped to hear brought up again is the similarities between the island of Lost and the mythological Greek island of Adelos. I'm pretty sure Big mentioned it before and was just hoping for some elaboration, if there was any possibility of it.

KevJones

Anonymous said...

@Lolagrrl:

Great connection. The last time we saw the statue it had been destroyed, and women on The Island could not conceive.

- Kurt

lockerocks said...

Ok, about our friend Richard. . .

I have been researching some theories of Richard Alpert as well as the actor who portrays him, Nestor Carbonell. According to Lostpedia, Carbonell has a naturally dark eyeline which is not due to makeup. I think if there is an Egyptian connection, then casting Carbonell was crucial. I'm not so sure I agree with Richard being Egyptian.

One theory I think is the most probable but still partially unexplained is that the island "needs" Richard and therefore won't let him age &/or die (like Michael and Locke). Maybe this is because Richard is the REAL chosen one. He is the one who picks the "leaders", suggesting that he ranks above them.

One more theory, a little far fetched however, is a biblical reference to Richard, Jacob and the Island being a trinity of sorts. The Island being God, Richard being Jesus, and Jacob being the Holy Spirit. The only reason I can begin to believe this theory is the show being so full of other biblical references.

I obviously am a Locke fan, but Richard is a close second in my favorite characters.

On a side note, Daniel kept muttering "I won't tell her this time" in LaFleur meaning, I assume, that he wouldn't tell Charlotte to leave the island. But he also AGAIN told Miles that "whatever happened happened" so if Charlotte left the island then she is still going to leave the island and she is still going to die, right? How does he think he is going to stop that from happening if it already happened? Maybe Daniel knows a loophole about changing the future. I know my brain can't wrap around all this time travel stuff, I'm kind of glad we are moving past that for now!

Mark Clouden said...

I know that there is no answer to this just yet (hah, this is Lost after all), but im gonna potentially lose some sleep over this.

Where the heck are the remaining dozen or so 815 survivors (a quick count on lostpedia shows 13 persons)???

I mean, can you imagine being in Sullivans shoes? Fearless leader Bernard or Rose to guide you through how many purple sky events? if they come across them on day in the fut.... errrrr, back in 1977 and Rose doesnt punch someone for leaving them to fend for themselves, I for one will be mightily dissapointed.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@lockerockes, thanks for the follow-through on Alpert. My problem with the Egyptian overtones of late is that the show might seem to be influenced in some ways by STARGATE, though I get that LOST certainly presents the possibilities in a less scifi way. I recall when everyone spoke of the descendants of the BLACK ROCK and if Richard was on the boat. I agree that he has to be second-in-command--maybe even an advisor on the Island's past--the Panchen Lama (sp?) to the Dalai Lama. I can't imagine Richard being ageless and from ancient Egypt and be totally surprised when Locke told him about time travel. That just seems off. And your biblical reference might not be far off, as it shows the Island as both harsh and forgiving.

@Mark Clouden I was thinking a bit differently about what Faraday wasn't going to tell Charlotte. The wording might be off, but what if Faraday was saying that, if/when they got back to the present day, if there was even a slim chance he would see Charlotte around the time Abaddon and Naomi recruits them, he would NOT tell Charlotte to go with. Seems off, I know, but it might solve the "what happened happened" situation. Though course correction could be involved, plus, even if Faraday doesn't tell her, well, what if Charlotte's dying memory was wrong? What if Sawyer was the bearded guy? Or Jack?

Anonymous said...

I think Richard Alpert is an important character to Lost indeed. A 2002 biographical film named "Ram Dass Fierce Grace" told the story of one Richard Alpert a.k.a "Ram Dass"...which means servant of God...who once led a life as a psychlogy teacher turned spiritual student then back to teacher. He wrote a book that explained that every person was a manifestation of God and every moment of life was very significant. He also wrote several peices that ran along the studies of Dharma...which means path of rightenous or the ultimate truth of the universe. Probably just another link to people like John Locke or Jeremy Bentham that the writers have used to set the plot. But all in all still using the main concept of equal significance taught of questioned in real terms that seems to make up what the whole plot of lost revolves around.

Who knows? I'm curious to find out if Ben is behind the reason why there was a problem with women having children on the island. Perhaps he had some motive behind keeping birth from happening so he could remain the leader of the others. Seeing how the island may have to change the leader every so often to keep balance. i.e. someone born on the island for a time and then handed over to someone born off the island. He has been known to lie about that. In "The Man Behind the Curtain" he told Locke he was born on the island. Maybe he told the same lie to the others so he could become the leader. And now its time for a change of hands and he wants to keep it. Just a thought.

Mike

Becky said...

Hi, I'm Becky. I just found your site about a week ago and have been enjoying it very much.

I am starting to worry that John Locke is a false leader. It is looking like the reason Richard went to see John after his birth and again when he was a child was because John told him that he does it. And now Sawyer has told Richard more about Locke in the 70's timeline, which is what I think makes Richard seek him out (with help) as a teen at his high school to try to get him to the special school or camp or whatever it is. So maybe Locke isn't special? And this whole loop has mistakenly put him in the place of leader?

But then we have the island healing him, right? So he must be special, right? This whole time loop thing is messing with my head. Can't wait to see what TPTB pull out of their hats for us.

Capcom said...

Ben threw up after he landed in Tunisia too, didn't he? I remember on The Lost Community blog (also a place where posters can bring up any Lost topic of the past on any episode thread) that we were talking about it looking orange, and how maybe he drank some of the sub-juice that RA gave Juliet before her trip to the island. :o)

Capcom said...

Interesting to connect to Jacob's well, Koreambear.

I like your idea about what Dan said Wayne, because as you say, interpretting it with the obvious first meaning doesn't make much sense against the whole "what happened, happened" thing.

Anonymous said...

The whole "what happened, happened" quote has also been nagging at me. We've already seen Daniel working for Dharma during the premier. Was this during the same time that Sawyer is "LaFleur" or did that happen prior to Oceanic 815? Then we saw Daniel go to speak with Desmond at the Swan Station. So he already changed some of the things that had happened. This brings me to my main point which is that maybe they can change some of the elements as long as the outcome is the same. Fate's concrete events, filled in by free-will.

KevJones

Capcom said...

Good point Kev. Maybe it's like, it doesn't matter if you get in on the left or right side of your car, you're still going to drive it to the same place. Then again, if it doesn't matter, why bother doing it differently? Arg! :-o

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Becky-- new here, huh? Do what I did in the summer of 2007, read every post Big puts down, seriously. This is a seriously well-thought out blog. You will not be disappointed. Not certain, though, but I think Richard visited Locke again in 1972, though you are right in mentioning that if Richard was off a bit (recalling the event) when Sawyer mentioned Jughead, he might well have had that extra prod about Locke send him to the mainland again. Unless Locke flunked a grade or two, though, he'd be out of HS. Some events just can't fit into the show, but could Richard have again gone to Tustin to see Locke circa 1974-1977 and was still disappointed at Locke?

@Mike-I'm sure Richard Alpert's name was chosen for the Ram Dass connection, because that's how LOST works. And I really think we are going to get more about him and hopefully the temple this season. Is Sawyer living in Ben's place? Will he eventually think to look for the door with the heiroglyphics? If Ben's place is where Ben and his dad live, where are they in 1977? Aside from Ellie, it seems like all the Others are men, yet the two who attacked Amy & Paul were too young to have been around in 1954. More shipwrecks? Maybe the female Others are kept safe and out of sight during the Truce.

@KoreAmBear-nice catch on the well, I found it interesting that the outside was there in 1974 and yet the well had not been cored into. I want to read up on the well, Bible-wise, but I'll bet Capcom beats me to it. When you mention Cal, do you mean Cal Tech?

@Capcom-I was playing Devil's Advocate with the Dan/Charlotte thing, but C. did say she THOUGHT it was Dan. She was around Sawyer long enough, the beard, etc. Forget the shirt & tie, both were wearing jumpsuits in the 70s. I could see Faraday doing his best and Sawyer inadvertently goofing things up.

On the subject of vomiting, could time travel cause some reaction in the body (aside from causing nausea) to make the body expunge something? What you say about Ben taking the Juliet cocktail makes sense, but what did Locke throw up? Mango juice? Could exposure to the wheel liquify something inside you like a blender? Ah, I guess in recent weeks everyone's been eating fruit, right?

Looking forward to comments and Big's eventual visit. Becky, again, go back to 2004, you'll be amazed that hardly anyone was commenting on the blog back in the day.

KoreAmBear said...

"Cal" means U.C. Berkeley, Wayne.

Jacob's well is referred to in John 4, when Jesus spoke to a Samaratin woman (Samaratins were despised by the Jews). The plot of land was given to Joseph, Any nuggets from this passage?

John 4
Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman
1The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, 2although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3When the Lord learned of this, he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
4Now he had to go through Samaria. 5So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6Jacob's well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

7When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, "Will you give me a drink?" 8(His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

11"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?"

13Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

15The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water."

16He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back."

17"I have no husband," she replied.

Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. 18The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."

19"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."

21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."

26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus
27Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, "What do you want?" or "Why are you talking with her?"
28Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29"Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ[b]?" 30They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."

32But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35Do you not say, 'Four months more and then the harvest'? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37Thus the saying 'One sows and another reaps' is true. 38I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor."

Many Samaritans Believe
39Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did." 40So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41And because of his words many more became believers.
42They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

Jesus Heals the Official's Son
43After the two days he left for Galilee. 44(Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.) 45When he arrived in Galilee, the Galileans welcomed him. They had seen all that he had done in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, for they also had been there.
46Once more he visited Cana in Galilee, where he had turned the water into wine. And there was a certain royal official whose son lay sick at Capernaum. 47When this man heard that Jesus had arrived in Galilee from Judea, he went to him and begged him to come and heal his son, who was close to death.

48"Unless you people see miraculous signs and wonders," Jesus told him, "you will never believe."

49The royal official said, "Sir, come down before my child dies."

50Jesus replied, "You may go. Your son will live."
The man took Jesus at his word and departed. 51While he was still on the way, his servants met him with the news that his boy was living. 52When he inquired as to the time when his son got better, they said to him, "The fever left him yesterday at the seventh hour."

53Then the father realized that this was the exact time at which Jesus had said to him, "Your son will live." So he and all his household believed.

54This was the second miraculous sign that Jesus performed, having come from Judea to Galilee.

Also, check this site out regarding Jacob's Well:

http://www.edwardfudge.com/sychar.html

SKID said...

Okay . . . clearly what everyone is REALLY wondering:

It has now been THREE. YEARS.

Is Faraday still wearing that tie?

Come on people. I know I have pushed this since last year, but the moment of truth is about to happen. . . . and now we have had a week off to ponder it further.

Wearing it for a week was odd. I mean wearing one on the boat in the first place was even more strange.

. . . but wearing it for over two weeks?

. . . and now, it has been THREE YEARS. Next week's epsisode will be huge. It is the one moment I have been waiting for all season.

The following things had better happen:

1. SOMEONE (my guess is it HAS to be Sawyer) had better reference it at some point. I mean we finally got the shout out to the eyeliner.

(I simply cannot believe that NO ONE on the island has even seemed to notice it. Granted that flaming arrows and limb amputation cause distractions . . .)

2. If it does come off, it had better be used to kill someone or save someone.

Until this issue is resolved, I just might have to wear a tie myself in protest . . . or admiration. I can't decide which.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@KoreAmBear, I appreciate the notes and link re: Jacob's well. Some interesting passages there. Thanks for taking the time.

Anonymous said...

Hey BM, what are your thoughts on "Adam & Eve"? Who are they? I have my own theory that I think would make for an interesting "loop". I think Adam & Eve is Bernard and Rose. If you remember, Jack found a black stone and a white stone in 1 of their pockets, and I think he still has them with him. Last we saw Bernard and Rose they were flashing through time with Sawyer, Juliet, etc. but got separated from the pack. I think they ended up hiding together in the caves and died in the time frame that Sawyer, Jack, and Juliet are in right now (around 1977). I think Jack will soon stumble upon a dead Bernard and Rose in 1977 before their bodies decomposed. He'll look for the 2 stones, but they won't be there. Then he'll pull the 2 stones that he found from present time (around 2007) out of his pocket and put them where he originally found them. He'll have to, because remember...you can't change the past. Then he'll find those same 2 stones 30 years later when he finds "Adam & Eve". It's like a big circle. Do you see any flaws with this theory?
-Bix

Lolagrrl said...

Bix,

Your comment makes me wonder if those black & white "stones" are actually pieces from the backgammon set in Season 1. Dunno... It would explain where they came from, at least. =)

Capcom said...

I agree Wayne about the regurgitating. :-) At the time of Ben's trip, we didn't get to see whether or not he had time to guzzle down some anti-timewarp-juice or not. But in Locke's instance, I think we can say that he didn't see any stash of juice there for him to swig on (nor did CS give him advice to do so), so we can be pretty sure that he went through dry. So I also think that it must be a side-effect of the time jumping, that kind of thing must have some kind of effect on a person physically, if it ever come true. :-)

Good work Koreambear! I wonder if it's at all pertinent that Jacob met Rachel and the shephards at the well after he has the ladder vision? (Genesis 29) Probably not, but...here's more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_Well

I hear ya Skid, about the tie. I've wondered if it's even more than just being a die-hard engineer, and now that he's on the island and all this crazy stuff has gone on, if it's like a talisman to him, helping him keep his mind on a logical track. Or, just something that TPTB use to tease us. X-D

Anonymous said...

Wow. When is this new show coming with this character 'Jesus'? It sounds wackier than even Lost!

lockerocks said...

Bix - I wondered too about Bernard & Rose being Adam & Eve but only one thing confuses me. How could they (in 2004) be on the island with their own dead bodies? I've really got to get a "Time Travel For Dummies" book.

Lolagrrl - I also suggested a few weeks ago that the stones could actually be backgammon pieces. Nice to know someone else is on my same mind track!

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@losterocks I had commented to 80sPro a week or so back, I suspected Rose & Bernard (after the possibility of Amelia Earhart & Fred Noonan) because of the mural in the Swan. The black, white, male, female thing. (Roles reversed, of course, though the woman makes me think og Rousseau). I like the idea that Jack himself puts the stones there, the whole "compass" thing all over again.

Also, Frogurt (and quite a few survivors) were killed by flaming arrows in 1954 (or thereabouts depending on the time flashes), so there is a paradox right there.

I'm sure we can agree, in some way, that we don't understand the paradoxes of time travel because, as of yet, no one in real life has travelled in time. As far as we know, ha ha.

It will be interesting to see what that first Orchid experiment will be? Will it be Faraday's idea?

Rabbit 15b said...

I'm still leaning towards Four-toes being Horus. But to me, the key isn't so much the identity as it is why does an Egyptian statue have four toes and sandals? It seems that someone may be going out of their way to draw attention to the foot. Maybe something's buried under it?

Did anyone else catch the irony of Locke trying to end his life with an extension cord?

And I was reading up on Hannibal (because of Charlotte's comment about knowing more about ancient Carthage than him) when I came across this interesting tidbit concerning a vision Hannibal once had: "Hannibal saw a serpent crashing through forest and thicket causing destruction everywhere. It moved as a black tempest with claps of thunder and flashes of lightning gathered behind the serpent." Very Smoky-like.

KoreAmBear said...

Biggy,

Speaking of sports, do you think there will be another Red Sox reference, as in Jack and Christian's running joke about the Red Sox winning the World Series? Sawyer and co. got there in 1974. That famous Carlton Fisk inside the foul pole home run happened in the 1975 World Series. Well, by 1977, it was the Yankees doing back to back titles against the Dodgers.

Anonymous said...

I'm curious as to why the statue was destroyed. Maybe Jacob brought christianity to the island's inhabitants changing thier religon. Since christianity beliefs state that you shall not worship false god's or idols. So the statue was destroyed for that reason. I think Jacob came to the island with the Black Rock when it crashed in the middle of the island and obrought doubt to the others about thier beliefs. Since the fall of egyptian empire there wouldn't be any more people from thier background and beliefs coming to the island. Maybe the others believed that thier gods were replaced by one supreme god of Jacob's. They may have used some of the dynamite that was on the Black Rock to destroy the statue.

I would say Horace is living the house that Ben lived in during the arrival of 815. The house that Sawyer and Juliet live in; the kitchen is on the right side of the house as you enter. When Locke paid Ben a visit to blow the sub out of the water his kitchen was on the left side of the enterance. I think Juliet and Sawyer are living in the house she had when 815 arrived. It looks similar to hers.
If Richard seemed suprised by time travel ideas then why wasn't he so shocked to find out that Anthony Cooper was brought to the island? He obvisouly has some clue to things because he helped Locke come to the solution of using Sawyer as his proxy to kill him. Anthony also kept trying to ask Locke if he knew what this place really was. I think Richard was suprised because he had been waiting since the 50's for more on Locke and the group he met then. To him it would seem Sawyer and his group were ageless like he is. Since it had only been days for Sawyer and his group and years for Richard.

I'm also curious about the volcanoe on the island. Why no one talks about it except the teacher talking about it in the Man behind the curtain.

Lolagrrl said...

That last comment reminded me of something... Not sure if it's been covered yet but I think the Black Rock is so far inland b/c the Island "moved" and appeared underneath it.

Yeah... I bet this has been covered already. =)

Bigmouth said...

I finally got around to updating my La Fleur recap with some three-dot thoughts, so be sure to check those out. But I'm glad to see people getting into the spirit of this more free form post. I'll try to do this again soon...

KoreAmBear: I'm holding out for a character named Brock Mansion LOL!

March Hare: Check out my updated recap for La Fleur for more on this, but I'm definitely onboard with Richard having ancient Egyptian roots. I could easily see him as a living relic of the Island's distant past like the Donkey Wheel and Cerberus.

Lolagrrl: Since we never saw the face, a lot of the Egyptian pantheon is in play, and Taweret fits well with the Island's fertility issues. But I'm sticking with Anubis because of the connection with Cerberus and the underworld. Keep in mind that Anubis's father Osiris, besides being kind of the dead, is himself connected with fertility.

Wayne: I'm not sure the U.S. Military was looking for the Island's exotic energy. I think they were more interested in isolation and secrecy, which the Island also afforded them.

KevJones: I personally haven't plumbed the Adelos angle beyond noting the obvious connection to the Apollo candy bars. But take a look at my man MikeNY's blog and get ready to have your face set to stunned.

Becky: Welcome and thanks for your kind words! The strength of this blog has clearly become the comments, which are as sharp and insightful as any Lost blog around. I think your own about Locke being a leader solely by virtue of the loop is right on target. When Locke asked why he was special, Widmore replied simply "because you are." I get the sense the latter needs the former to be on the Island to fulfill some sequence of events favorable to Widmore. I'm reminded of Desmond's explanation to Charlie about having to follow his flashes exactly or risk changing the "picture on the box."

SKID: We know Faraday takes off the tie at some point during those three years because we see him in a Dharma jumpsuit at the start of Because You Left LOL!

Bix: I've always believed that Adam and Eve will be Penny and Desmond. I still think those two will return to the Island at some point, perhaps via another shipwreck. I can also see the plausibility of Rose and Bernard, whose stories seem pretty much told. I'm guessing the O6 will hide in the caves while Sawyer figures out what to do with them. Maybe they'll discover Rose and Bernard died there some time before. But my dark horses these days are Daniel and Charlotte. I've got a bad feeling Faraday's in line for some heroic sacrifice...

Anonymous (?): I think you've answered your own question about what happened to the statue. The volcano probably erupted ala Mt. Vesuvius, destroying most of the Island's ancient civilization. The rest was buried under ash and lava...

Lolagrrl said...

Big, I was with you on the Anubis thing until I saw a statue of Taweret. It has long hair and a box-looking-thing on it's head... basically, it looks ~exactly~ like the back of the statue while Anubis has pointy ears and looks nothing like the statue in lost. Plus, Taweret has for toes. =)

Capcom said...

Rabbit, I really like what your research on Hannibal turned up! I've been meaning to look him up since Charlotte mentioned him, but kept forgetting, so thanks for posting that.

Wayne, I don't understand the parodoxes of time travel on Lost because TPTB seem to keep waffling back and forth about it! Until they reveal to us what their personal "key" is for how their paradox works in this story at least, my head is stumped about it. X-D

Re: The Tie...how do we know that Dan wasn't wearing the jumpsuit over his pants, shirt, and tie??!! A possible hasty suit-up to get into the excavation site might have necessitated that too. I'll have to go back and check to see if a white collar is visible under his jumpsuit, or, if it zips up high enough to cover a collar up. Although, I've known plently of mentally preoccupied scientists who had some hygiene problems, but hopefully at least Dan will have cleaned his clothes a few times in 3 years, heheh.

Lolagrrl, yeah, the Jackie Kennedy pillbox hat on Taweret is what connects it to the statue for me too, until we learn otherwise. :o)

Bigmouth said...

Lolagrrl: Like I said, it's very possible! My main problem with Taweret is that she doesn't have pointy ears. Although neither is a perfect match, those ears look more like a dog to me. I've also seen pictures of Hermanubis (the Greco-Roman version of Anubis) with hats and small pointy ears. Sawyer mentioned Plato, which I think was a big clue. Is there a Greek connection to Taweret? Or is she maybe linked with Atlantis?

Capcom: Good point re the tie LOL! Daniel is actually wearing a t-shirt that shows his neck, but it's hard to tell from the pic. There could indeed be a a tattered tie hidden underneath...

Bigmouth said...

Interesting...Taweret was also the goddess who, according to the Book of the Dead, guided the dead into the afterlife. She also stood guard over the mountains of the west where the deceased entered the land of the dead. I'm still leaning towards Anubis/Hermanubis, but you Taweret types may be onto something!

Lolagrrl said...

That was the other point of interest to me. It eventually morphed into a fertility/pregnancy representation. =)

BTW - it's great to be back here. I don't even bother w/other Lost forums or blogs anymore. Here is where I can have debates/discussions, get new POVs and theories... and it's all intelligent, well thought out and TROLL free!

Thanks Big for giving me a place to play. =)

Greg Tramel said...

plato WOULD bring us back to atlantis

don't think it is THAT important to definitively identify the statue just that mythology/religion has influenced the island throughout "time"

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Hey, Big. My point wasn't about the Island's secrecy, it was about WHY the Hostiles had to fight the US Army. I mean, there were plenty of islands the US did use for nuclear tests, so when the "indigeneous people" were discovered, why wouldn't the US Army just leave? I think the Hostiles ambushed the Army guys, there was no give and take at all. Look at how Widmore handled Juliet.

The Anonymous Anonymous corrected me on the housing, yea, Horace would be in Ben's joint. I remember Locke finding chicken in the fridge.

Re: the volcano. There seems to be a crater south of the beach camp. Since there is no real map of the Island, I've kind of placed the Dark Territory in the volcano area. The Black Rock likely had the bad luck Lolagrrl describes, and I think the skeltons represented Smokey killing the slaves.

CapCom: I'm just guessing on time travel, I'm more of the multiverse theory, not the string theory. In that way, Faraday could be right about some things and wrong about others.

Skid: Re: Faraday wearing his tie in 1974. Three words. What happened happened.

Greg Tramel said...

multiverses, OH YEAH!

i think EVERYBODY is leaving out the traveling between dimensions or has anyone seen anybody else talking about it

but it may be debunked next episode

Bigmouth said...

Lolagrrl: Thanks -- I've always loved your comments and am glad you've found a home here! Since I can't always respond to everyone individually, I'm really happy how the comments have reached a critical mass whereby dialogues regularly take place independent of me.

Greg: You're probably right about the identity of the statue being deliberately ambiguous. Still, the Anubis wiki specifically cites Plato, Cerberus, and the underworld. It's pretty rare to hit the wiki trifecta -- when several references come together in a single wiki, then chances are the writers were inspired by it. Regarding the multiverse, check out my post When Alternate Realities Collide for one take on the possibility. But see also the Course Correction Conundrum? for some important caveats offered by Darlton themselves. Ultimately, I think the rule of time travel on Lost will be what Dan has told us: whatever happened, happened...except for Desmond.

Wayne: The Island's isolation in spacetime makes it the ultimate place to test weapons secretly. I would expect the army to relocate any indigenous population, as they did in the Bikini Islands, or simply eradicate the natives. Maybe the military knew about the Island's exotic matter deposit, but even if they didn't, they still had ample motive to fight.

Greg Tramel said...

yeah, Anubis works because it is a jackal which for me plays on the word jekyll which leads to Jekyll Island (which is infamous in conspiracy lore)hence the Jekyll Island beer on Lost, there are the ears which don't quite match BUT Anubis could point to Hermanubis with short ears and crown

TOTALLY agree with whatever happened happened except OF COURSE Desmond but for me that just may prove multiple dimensions

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Big, you make a good point re: the Army's point in staying with Jughead. But it seems to me that Widmore was a hell of a lot more agressive than Richard. Granted, they thought Faraday, et.al., were part of the military. So, I guess what I'm saying is this, I don't really think the Others knew about nuclear devices, any type of advances like that. Perhaps they even acquired the sub the same way they grabbed the army uniforms. So...were the original Islanders much more passive until the Army and their bomb showed up? E.g., did they welcome any Black Rockers with open arms? I'm trying to get an idea of why that whole massacre in 1954 occurred. It had to have been quick for the US not to send another batallion.

You are right about all the commenters. I think its great and its pretty much why I dig your posts. That's why I asked KoreAmBear the school "Cal" referred to, I figured you weren't some schlub with a liberal arts degree like me.

Capcom said...

Heheh, don't get your string theories mixed up now, there's the Quantum Leap time-as-a-string-folded-over-on-itself theory, and then there's the real String Theory, which does include mulitverses. :o)

I'd also assume that the Army might have tried to move the Hostiles as in WW2 on Bikini, and when they said "No way Jose", the scuffle ensued.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with a Liberal Arts degree Wayne!

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Thx, Capcom. Its kept me in near poverty for two decades but I have a lot of published work, yay me. I still don't get why you guys think the US would move the Others, seriously. I might be dense, but if Richard and the other Others looked pretty much like European-Americans, well, that's different than a tribe of islanders. There were dozens of atolls to choose from. Yea, I'm making too much of it, but how did that fight escalate so damn fast that there wasn't even backup (or reprisals, unless the Island moved. Curses!).

A new rant: The well, with a rope. Certainly not for hanging on like Locke.The chamber with the wheel was frozen. At one time could it have been warmer down there, with a cool stream where one could bring water up with a bucket? Exotic matter water that kept people healthy and aging at a slower rate? Thoughts?

Capcom said...

Oh, I'm just leaving that possiblity open (I don't cling to any of my theories) because of how the US moved indigenous islanders around in WW2...even when there were plenty of atolls to go around then too. I guess it was just a matter of the perfect isolation from enemy recon, wind patterns that would affect the fallout, etc. For instance, why couldn't they just test a bomb where they ended up moving the Bikini natives and save the trouble and heartache of moving them?! That's always bugged me. But here's what Wiki says about the location:

"A series of three tests was recommended to study the effects of nuclear weapons on ships, equipment, and material. Test site requirements were specified:

* A protected anchorage at least six miles wide
* A site which was uninhabited, or nearly so
* A location at least 300 miles from the nearest city
* Weather patterns without severe cold and violent storms
* Predictable winds directionally uniform from sea level to 60,000 feet
* Predictable water currents away from shipping lanes, fishing areas, and inhabited shores
Controlled by the United States"

So who knows why Lost island was perfect for Jughead. If the Army knew that it would move, that would be kind of perfect for deniability to the enemy ("What bomb test?"). But I don't think that TPTB will ever tell us this detail, like many others that will go unexplained. :-(


Good idea about the water! I've always wondered if it was some radioactive water (natural or otherwise) that caused the pregancy problems. And if it was gamma rays, maybe that explains why sperms turn into little Hulk-sperms? :o)

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Back at you on the "we'll never get some details" bit, but still. I know the Jughead episode is a deus ex machina to get the bomb on the Island, but I'm kind of finger pointing at US here. Were we that insane that we wouldn't stop at just relocating Pacific islanders (as we did the Japanese in the 1940s), but anybody, even a group led by Richard Alpert who, as far as I know, doesn't turn into a werewolf or anything, I mean, he looks like an American sgt./major, even. I just think that the Others became Hostiles to the DI once they realized the DI was acting, albeit at a different level, the same way the US Army did in 1954. If this were real life, Widmore and Ben aren't the bad guys, pretty much ANYONE in control is the bad guy.

I thought of the well again after re-reading KoreAmBear's great post. DI sharing the Island's "living water," and the line that pretty much says you'll want to go back to the well for more. At one point, there had to have been a bucket (or maybe a small pallet) at the end of that rope).

And I'll say no more about Jughead, other than to say that, yes, those behind the military decisions in the US are complete @$$e$.

Bigmouth said...

Hmmm...I guess I'm still having trouble seeing why it's all that implausible the army would kill to control an Island not even God can see. Out of curiosity, what's the consensus on whether Danish munitions magnate Alvar Hanso was behind testing the Jughead?

Also, one more intriguing Anubis connection to the show. In the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham, Hurley was painting the Sphinx. Some historians believe the Sphinx was originally a dog statue of Anubis that was later altered to its present feline form!

Synchromystic Librarian said...

i figured the rope was there because sawyer or um james was holding it when they "traveled"

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Synch, well, yea, but the rope was there when Locke went down the hole, that's what I meant. Charlotte knew of the well as a kid, I'm assuming the rope was there in the 70s and the well was off-limit to the kids for safety concerns.

@Big, there you go, helping me out. Indeed, Alvar is another person we still should get back story on, and it would also explain why Jughead had to be on THAT island, and this is why the US Army wouldn't take no for an answer. That would make sense to me. (Maybe I missed something, but I'm not certain how the military in 1954 knew about the Island's movements. So it really makes sense that someone like Alvar would have that information in the 50s, use it through the US Army, and then pass it on in the way of funding the DI in the 70s). Well played, Big, well played.

darkprose said...

Big, fantastic blog. All the comments, too, are very, very good.

I love the details of the show, but sometimes I think of the show's narratives like a palimpsest, and I am fascinated that each season they unveil another dimension to the Island, a recontextualization of its meaning. The Egyptian clues and contexts are yet another fascinating layer of the Island's reality, like the DI and the Other's have been before it. Intuitively, how far do you think the show will go? Each time the expectation of the Island's truth is set up, it is deferred to an even deeper, or younger, setting. Will it be similar to the finale of Spielberg's latest "Indiana Jones," with the layers of time and travel melting away to reveal the extraterrestrial and alien?

Some speculation as to this larger arc is fascinating as the Island, for me, is THE character of "Lost," and I find that the human characters, their fascinating alchemy, is utterly tied to the fate, or, even more directly, the nature, of the Island itself.

What does everyone think?

ellipsis said...

if the well was once a water source then wouldn't the donkey wheel be submerged in water? is that where the radioactivity or whatever might come from?

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@ellipsis, yes, that the area asround the donkey wheel wasn't always frozen. If the well was another entrance to where the wheel was, I'd think it would've been as bit wider, though I could be wrong.

@darkprose Palimpsest is one of my favorite words to use in my writings, it certainly applies to each season of LOST.

Synchromystic Librarian said...

is it wed YET!

i think this episode is going to bring us back to multiverses

ah! that rope, i got lost in time wayne

Capcom said...

Heheh well, as a WW2 history buff, I'd have to disagree with the thought that every mind behind the US military decisions during that time was faulty, but I'll leave it at that. As the saying goes, it's a tough job, and somebody's gotta do it. :o)

I have also been thinking that Alvar might have been involved with the bomb test projects (because of his munitions work), and maybe that's how he found out about the island, and the island is what turned his mind around to peaceful pursuits. Who knows, maybe even Alvar is/was on the Hostiles' side?! :-o

I agree Darkprose, the Island is the main character for me too. I was even worried when we first heard of the action moving off-island that I wouldn't like the show anymore. But TPTB eased us into that slowly enough to not make it too painful. Although, I still prefer it more when the story is back on the island.

Great comments everyone! :-D

Bigmouth said...

Wayne: Interesting possibility re exotic water! Do you suppose Richard Alpert bathed in the stuff?

darkprose: There was a time when I thought the Island's ancient history would remain a mystery. I figured that relics like Smokey, the four-toed colossus, and the Donkey Wheel were simply generic indicators of some arbitrarily advanced ancient civilization -- mythological Macguffins of a sort. I thought it would be left open whether this advanced civilization hailed from Earth or the stars. But I'm starting to suspect we'll get something more definitive. My guess is that Richard will explain to young Ben about the Island's past. And like you, I think we will learn its origins are extra-terrestrial...

For me, the big question about the character of the Island is whether it was supposed to be a part of human history. Is it a giant VALIS that was sent here to help humanity evolve like the monoliths in 2001:ASO? Or is it alien technology that crashed here by chance whose purpose has been misunderstood and perverted by humans?

Capcom: Have you seen the Fog of War, Erroll Morris's fantastic documentary on Robert McNamara? Riveting stuff...especially his descriptions of Curtis "Bombs Away" LeMay.

Capcom said...

I've been meaning to see that movie Big. I have my problems with MacNamara and his "20/20 hindsight" and partial revisionism (IMHO), etc., but you can't fault a person for genuinely learning from the past and saying so if that's the case with him. And, that's what studying history is supposed to be about, so one doesn't repeat it, as the saying goes. :-)

Greg Tramel said...

when sawyer and kate were hauling rocks for the others they did joke they were builing a runway for a UFO

but i hope lost is not anoter ET story

a question: looks like everyone is assuming the ajira airplane landed on the "runway" they were building, do we know this for sure (well i guess we don't know much for sure but is it most likley lapidis landed the airplane)

Anonymous said...

Wow, I think it's pretty spooky that BigMouth mentions that Md/Cal football game in his blog dated 3/11/09. The NCAA Men's BB tournament brackets were announced on 3/15/09 and who meets up in the 1st round? You guessed it Maryland and Cal. Obviously some course correction going on here. Go Terps!

-- FearTheTurtle

Aaron said...

Regarding Jughead and Hanso. The sticking point for me remains: Why would Alvar Hanso, if knowledge of the island has been passed down to him as a birthright of sorts, allow nuclear testing there? The only way it would make sense to me is if he didn't know the properties of the island at the time, and it was only because of the discovery of the Hostiles that he came to understand it's special properties. BM, can you chime in on this

Aaron said...

You know? "Oh, I've got this special island, the extraordinary properties of which could fundamentally alter the course of the human race. Let's blow it to smithereens!"
Unless, a couple other possibilities:
1) The U.S. military stumbled upon the island. The Hostiles told their man on the mainland, Alvar, who gave them the go ahead to and wipe the military unit out.
2) Some person or entity that we don't know about yet realized that the Island was dangerous, that it would be either used for nefarious purposes or would wind up being a force for destruction in the hands of misguided idealists (Dharma) and they tried to destroy the Island before it could happen.

Bigmouth said...

Capcom: There's plenty of revisionism, but McNamara proves surprisingly candid and compelling. It's also just an exceptionally well executed documentary -- probably Morris's best.

Greg: Nothing's for sure, but I do think it's likely the runway was for Ajira 316. Good call on Lapidus being a great way to confirm that they landed on the partially completed runway.

FearTheTurtle: I had a flash of the future LOL!

Aaron: Good point, though I'm not sure the Jughead would have vaporized the Island. Didn't the army move the natives back to the Bikini Islands after the test? Regardless, the time period in question (1950s) predates Alvar's transformation into philanthropist and crusader to save the world. Maybe he didn't yet perceive the Island in those terms...

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Aaron, how could the Hostiles communicate with Alvar in 1954? Do you think he might have been closer, say, Australia or L.A., and could be contacted by radio or something? It didn't seem that Richard was all about travelling to the mainland until Locke told him to check up on his birth. Could Alvar have funded Mittelos Labs?

Capcom: Not trying to get political re: the military, of course. (I shouldn't have mentioned internment camps, that was way off-topic). I agree with Big that it seems that Alvar would be the person in the know about the Island's qualities, not the military. If anything, at least the 1954 encounter illustrates how the Hostiles can be both understanding AND agressive.

Big: I would think Jughead might have made a huge crater if it had exploded, not vaporized the Island, you are right on that. Perhaps the Island wouldn't let anyone be harmed from the radiation, maybe the Temple has healing qualities as the exotic water does. The Orchid seems fairly close to the Temple, maybe an underground stream goes to the Temple like the stream that goes to the caves.

If people are still adding comments before tomorrow's show, seriously believe Bigmouth in his previous entry: watch BREAKING BAD. It is impossible to describe in any decent way.

Capcom said...

It just depends on the H-bomb as to how much of a blast happens, of course. The Bikini test left remains, but I recall reading that the power of some of the H-bombs tested was completely underestimated and turned out to be a much more devestating blast that expected and actually did blow some islands/atolls away.

Well you know Wayne in the case of the island, internment might not be so far off, if the DI could have overpowered the Hostiles. ??? Especially if Mittlewerk had his way, but he's not a factor here...yet. :-)

Aaron, you bring up a good point that if Alvar knew of the island and its properties before the Army got there, it stands to reason that he'd want to protect it. If he didn't know about it before then, maybe his eyes were opened when the Army reported their findings and he then decided to defend it with the Hostiles.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Ah, my dear friend Capcom. Mittlewerk. From BAD TWIN. Or the ARGs. But not from the show itself!!! Argh on that. I've said it before, this is an instance of why Lostpedia is a good resource, because I have absolutely NO idea about what you are talking about re: that dude. No biggie (and no pun intended), I'll just look it up. Wait. Is that Faraday saying "if you looked it up, then you looked it up." Here come the flashes...

darkprose said...

Wayne: Palimpsest is a great word, and it is a great metaphor for Lost.

Capcom: I am glad I am not the only one to think that, about the Island as character, I mean. This ties into my response to...

Bigmouth: You are precisely right in your question! The Island is almost always considered a benevolent, or neutral, reality, but this is the very, or, perhaps, final twist of the show: what if everyone has betrayed the Island, or vice-versa! Not to harp on the Dr Jones' references (but no other obvious example comes to mind), will the Island, once we have gotten that magic box open, be, in fact, Pandora's?

darkprose said...

Oh...one other thing:

I know there are those who believe that Hurley is the only one we can really trust, and he always hated those Numbers...

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

May be too soon before the next episode for the comments to continue, but for those who follow the stuff beside the show itself, what are your takes on Mittlewerk?

Capcom said...

Yes you're right Wayne, my best blog-penpal, I'm sure that Mittlejerk will not be a part of this story anymore, ever. *sniff* FWIW and FYI, (she sucks in a huge Ace Ventura breath) however all you really need to know now is basically that the last we heard from Mittlewerk, as second in command he had hidden Alvar away and taken over Hanso Inc. and was out to rid the world of 30% of the population due to his manic "research" on the Valenzetti Equation, and therefore, to save the human race from destroying itself, via a very suspicious virus and cure procedure (the Spider Protocol), of which Paik and Widmore industries were involved (including the transport of virus-infected people in the lower compartments of a mysterious freighter), not to mention the possible inclusion of the virus and/or hallucinogens in our soda and candybars. Whew!

I guess all that won't figure into the show at all, but it's really annoying to have been left at the end of TLE with Mittlewerk on such a crazy outlaw jag wherein he made threats to carry out his diabolical virus plan on his own on the unsuspecting world. That's a huge story element to leave hanging, but I guess that TPTB have actually done that. And some of us were just hoping for a little closure on that "hanging chad". :o)

Synchromystic Librarian said...

maybe Mittlewerk works for Massive Dynamic now

Capcom said...

LOL! X-D

Aaron said...

I don't think the a nuclear blast would comletely destory the island, but it would certainly render it uninhabitable and make it look not as purty and stuff. Plus why would you risk whatever reaction might ensue when you explode a hydrogen bomb on top of an island that is capable of shifting its location in space-time? Bottom line: Why nuke the most spectacular discovery in human history?

The nuclear stuff appears like it would answer some questions: the hazmat suits that Kelvin and the Swan stationers wore (protection from fallout); the shots they took (protection against radiation poisoning); the pregancy problems.

But then again, the hazmat suits were shown to have been unnecessary, so whatever story was used to justify them, fake nuclear explosion or otherwise, was likely a ruse to keep the Swam folks locked in and pushing the button; the syringes likewise could have been filled with saline solution (though why then would Ethan have used it on Claire?); and radiation poisoning wouldn't necessarily have caused miscarriages, as a commenter at Popular Mechanics noted, but rather in successful births to deformed mutant babies.

Capcom said...

Someone somewhere (here?) wondered if the vaccine could have been a drug that would keep Smokey from doing to them, what Smokey was able to do to the B612 team. I thought that was an interesting thing to imagine...say, the DI finds that Smokey has done it to some of their early crew, so the DI puts up the fence and creates some kind of serum that affects certain parts of your brain so that Smokey can't get to it. ???

Aaron said...

Wayne, I guess whether the Hostiles could have communicated with Alvar back in 1954 depends in part on whether Alvar had ever been to the Island before or knew its properties. I imagine they could have figured out some kind of radio communication.

The other possibility is Alvar didn't know anything about the Island, other than it was place crazy old Magnus had bequeathed to him/told him about/given him wacky drawings and maps to, until around the 1950s.

Capcom, I'm intrigued by the idea of a Smokey-repellent that prevents him from scanning or invading you.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Aaron, I was thinking, if not ham radio, even something like morse code. I forgot to mention in my earlier posts that, by the height of the Cold War, there dozens of listening posts around the world. Check out the Conet Project, the active ones can be downloaded. So Hanso could have been communicating with the Hostiles via, say, the Danish Consulate in some US city.

@Capcom. I had forgotten all about that Persephone and DJ Dan and Sri Lanka video cra--ah, stuff (Ha, ha). Maybe S5 or S6's box sets will include extras on loose ends. I'd settle for them putting the Sri Lanka video and some of the transcripts by Rachel you find on Lostpedia on one of the DVD sets, seeing as they are already available online.

Did the last Dharma ARG end abruptly? Maybe it was because the shift went towards the mystery of Ajira Airways. The same could have happened with Mittlewerk, if I get your comment correctly. Perhaps they expected BAD TWIN to sell better, I think a large part of that book dealt with him.

It all comes back to Richard, I guess, being as old as he is. A decent episode involving him as the primary--not so much a centric episode but one which connected a few dots like Nikki and Paulo's tale--could easily give us the timeline we need and the characters in play. Richard could bring up, i.e., Mittlewerk (I really, really just want to say "stuff not on the show itself", but, hey, truth be told, I think it was/is a good experiment on the creators' part to try alternative media, even if it meant learning a lesson by BAD TWIN's dismal sale figures), and the Sri Lanka video as a way of how the DI became corrupted, why a Purge was needed, there are ways through Alpert's discussions with, say, Sawyer and Jack and Faraday that we never even have to see an actor in Mittlework's role. Alpert's explanations would be enough. I think he can be very concise with every person we've seen him speak with, and his nuances speak volumes more than if they actually had a scene with Mittlewerk in it.

Capcom said...

Wayne, yes the last ARG did end rather badly, something about Hoodlum messing up or pulling out, or whatever, or ABC ending the contract due to the economy, I forget. Does anyone else remember? It was not a planned ending though, at any rate. Anyway, the TPTB apologized and set up Ajira cuz they love us so much, right?

Heheh, Bad Twin had dismal sales I guess because it was a dismal book. I admit, I bought it on sale at least, but I wanted to have it for posterity anyway. But it was like reading one of those "Young Adult" books, at about that mentality level. :o)

Capcom said...

See you on the flip-side friends! :-D