Welcome back, you all everybody! You've got to hand it to the writers of Lost. Like the cook who boils a frog alive by slowly increasing the heat, they ratchet up the craziness notch by notch, cooking your brain before you know it.
Some complain the creators played unfairly by first denying the science fiction and time travel elements of the show. These skeptics feel understandably misled now that Lost has clearly and unequivocally been revealed as such. But I'll bet most of the skeptics are still watching despite their reservations.
This is mainly due to the slow and deliberate way the show has acclimated us to the possibility of something so outlandish time travel. First Desmond's consciousness became unstuck in time. Then we were introduced to physical time travel via Bunny 15 and the corpse of Doc Ray. Now the Island itself has apparently become unstuck in time, blurring the line between mental and physical time travel. The absurd seems plausible thanks to this incremental progression.
But I think even skeptics can appreciate Lost as a kind of "anti-time-travel" story. Unlike more traditional takes on the subject, time travel is the problem, not the solution on the show. Dharma's efforts to manipulate time have disrupted the course of destiny. It's up to Ms. Hawking and Co. to nudge things back on track. In the spirit of Herb Caen, here are some three-dot thoughts on the Season 5 premier:
POWER TRIANGLE. I loved the opening shots of Dr. Chang, particularly the way he makes a power triangle with his hands that subtly evokes the symbol for the Arrow Station...The "limitless source of energy" is presumably the pocket of negatively charged exotic matter that Chang mentions in the Orchid Orientation. The drill technician who collapsed with a bloody nose is probably unstuck in time as a result of drilling too close to the exotic matter...Very cool seeing Faraday during that opening sequence. Now we know for sure that he was the "reliable source" cited by Dr. Chang in the 2008 Comic-Con video...
IT HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU LEFT. Ben's line is the latest of many reinforcing the notion that the Oceanic 6 were not supposed to be rescued. You'll also recall that Locke said something similar when trying to persuade Jack not to leave the Island. As I describe in the Anti-Christmas Carol, Desmond changed the "picture on the box" by postponing Charlie's death. This ability to change the course of fate is what makes Des the "wild card," a point I'll return to shortly...When Ben asks if Jack knows what happened to the people left behind on the Island, I sense the former already has this information and is actually testing the latter, though I'm unclear why...
PURPLE SKY. The purple sky is one of my absolute favorite recurring images on Lost. I could easily see the show ending with a purple sky event that moves the Island forward into the far future, perhaps via one last turn of the Frozen Donkey Wheel..."We must have been inside the radius" is presumably a reference to the event horizon of the wormhole that was opened when Ben turned the Frozen Donkey Wheel...The camp disappeared because the Island is now unstuck in time as a result of passage through the wormhole. As I describe in the Island Needs a Constant, its "consciousness" will oscillate between key periods in the Island's history. People and things from different times will appear, interact, then disappear like ghosts.
BORN TO RUN. You don't simply get a court order for a blood test as a matter of course. I suspect Sun was the one who's responsible, whether directly or indirectly, for those attorneys from Agostini & Norton wanting to test Kate and Aaron. Or maybe it was simply fate driving Kate back to the Island. Either way, it's fascinating how Kate's first instinct is to run just like it was in her life before the Island. It's another sign the Oceanic 6 have regressed to their former selves since they defied destiny by leaving the Island...
WELCOME TO THE CHINA CLUB. Sawyer's hilarious slap of Faraday was on behalf of every fan who's been frustrated by bigmouths like me for delving waaaaay too deep into the science and pseudo-science of Lost...I love the way Daniel's metaphor of the record skipping mirrors Dr. Chang's difficulty playing his Willie Nelson record. Many of my other favorite shows -- e.g., the Wire, Dexter, and Battlestar Galactica -- similarly use twinning and parallelism to underscore core themes. In this case, the skipping record reinforces my belief that Dharma somehow "scratched" the timeline, necessitating intervention by the likes of Ms. Hawking and her Chronology Protection Agents.
IT POINTS NORTH. Locke's encounter with Richard seems to suggest not everyone on the Island is unstuck in time. That's more difficult to conceptualize, but Daniel expressly alludes to the possibility earlier in the episode...Richard's gift of the compass harkens back to the scene in Cabin Fever where he gives young Locke the Dalai Lama test with the compass as one of the objects. I've always suspected that test wasn't so much about reincarnation as time travel. I believe Locke will soon travel back in time and meet a version of Richard who does not yet know him. Locke will gain Richard's trust by giving him the compass. Richard will then seek out Locke as a newborn, young child, and teen, in an effort to understand why. This is also why Richard and the Others seem to know Locke in earlier scenes -- they've been expecting him for some time.
WILD CARD. In posts like the Course Correction Conundrum, I've explored the tension between Ms. Hawking's rule against changing the future and the special case of Desmond. He's a "wild card" in part because he sees the path of destiny in advance and can manipulate course correction to change the "picture on the box." But Daniel's comments imply something even more profound -- Des is the only one who can undo the temporal disruption caused by DHARMA and the Others. His freedom from fate is actually what makes him the key to getting it back on track...So who is Daniel's mother? Like many of you, my first thought was Ms. Hawking. After sleeping on it, however, that feels incorrect to me. I think it's very possibly Ms. Hawking is connected to one of our Losties, but my gut tells me it isn't Faraday.
RED SHIRT ALERT. I let out a yelp of recognition (holy *&$% -- that's Frogurt!) when I saw Neil "Frogurt" in the Zodiac raft. Hard core fans will recall Frogurt from the Missing pieces mobisode the Adventures of Hurley and Frogurt. Sadly, the moment I recognized Frogurt, I knew he was going to die and soon. The writers confirmed my worst fears when they subsequently emphasized that Frogurt was wearing a red shirt -- a nod to the show's practice (in the tradition of Star Trek) of killing off minor characters so clad. Still, the flaming arrow was quite a spectacular way to go -- it brought to mind the shocking sight of Doc Arzt being blown to bits.
CHRONOLOGY PROTECTION AGENCY. Ah, Ms. Hawking, you are truly one of my favorite characters on the show! As stated previously, I think she's a Chronology Protection Agent whose mission is to nudge destiny back on course by convincing the Oceanic 6 to return to the Island. She seems to have recruited Ben, though it's unclear whether he has always worked for her or only since leaving the Island. I'll bet Ben wallowed in anger and depression over Alex's murder and his banishment for some time thereafter. I could plausibly see Ms. Hawking recruiting him with the promise he might one day return to the Island with her help.
ONE MORE THING: I was going to edit to add one further speculation but I see from the comments that someone has beaten me to the punch. I'm with Wayne Allen Sallee that the British fellow who wanted to chop off Juliet's hand was none other than a younger version of Charles Widmore himself.
Some complain the creators played unfairly by first denying the science fiction and time travel elements of the show. These skeptics feel understandably misled now that Lost has clearly and unequivocally been revealed as such. But I'll bet most of the skeptics are still watching despite their reservations.
This is mainly due to the slow and deliberate way the show has acclimated us to the possibility of something so outlandish time travel. First Desmond's consciousness became unstuck in time. Then we were introduced to physical time travel via Bunny 15 and the corpse of Doc Ray. Now the Island itself has apparently become unstuck in time, blurring the line between mental and physical time travel. The absurd seems plausible thanks to this incremental progression.
But I think even skeptics can appreciate Lost as a kind of "anti-time-travel" story. Unlike more traditional takes on the subject, time travel is the problem, not the solution on the show. Dharma's efforts to manipulate time have disrupted the course of destiny. It's up to Ms. Hawking and Co. to nudge things back on track. In the spirit of Herb Caen, here are some three-dot thoughts on the Season 5 premier:
POWER TRIANGLE. I loved the opening shots of Dr. Chang, particularly the way he makes a power triangle with his hands that subtly evokes the symbol for the Arrow Station...The "limitless source of energy" is presumably the pocket of negatively charged exotic matter that Chang mentions in the Orchid Orientation. The drill technician who collapsed with a bloody nose is probably unstuck in time as a result of drilling too close to the exotic matter...Very cool seeing Faraday during that opening sequence. Now we know for sure that he was the "reliable source" cited by Dr. Chang in the 2008 Comic-Con video...
IT HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU LEFT. Ben's line is the latest of many reinforcing the notion that the Oceanic 6 were not supposed to be rescued. You'll also recall that Locke said something similar when trying to persuade Jack not to leave the Island. As I describe in the Anti-Christmas Carol, Desmond changed the "picture on the box" by postponing Charlie's death. This ability to change the course of fate is what makes Des the "wild card," a point I'll return to shortly...When Ben asks if Jack knows what happened to the people left behind on the Island, I sense the former already has this information and is actually testing the latter, though I'm unclear why...
PURPLE SKY. The purple sky is one of my absolute favorite recurring images on Lost. I could easily see the show ending with a purple sky event that moves the Island forward into the far future, perhaps via one last turn of the Frozen Donkey Wheel..."We must have been inside the radius" is presumably a reference to the event horizon of the wormhole that was opened when Ben turned the Frozen Donkey Wheel...The camp disappeared because the Island is now unstuck in time as a result of passage through the wormhole. As I describe in the Island Needs a Constant, its "consciousness" will oscillate between key periods in the Island's history. People and things from different times will appear, interact, then disappear like ghosts.
BORN TO RUN. You don't simply get a court order for a blood test as a matter of course. I suspect Sun was the one who's responsible, whether directly or indirectly, for those attorneys from Agostini & Norton wanting to test Kate and Aaron. Or maybe it was simply fate driving Kate back to the Island. Either way, it's fascinating how Kate's first instinct is to run just like it was in her life before the Island. It's another sign the Oceanic 6 have regressed to their former selves since they defied destiny by leaving the Island...
WELCOME TO THE CHINA CLUB. Sawyer's hilarious slap of Faraday was on behalf of every fan who's been frustrated by bigmouths like me for delving waaaaay too deep into the science and pseudo-science of Lost...I love the way Daniel's metaphor of the record skipping mirrors Dr. Chang's difficulty playing his Willie Nelson record. Many of my other favorite shows -- e.g., the Wire, Dexter, and Battlestar Galactica -- similarly use twinning and parallelism to underscore core themes. In this case, the skipping record reinforces my belief that Dharma somehow "scratched" the timeline, necessitating intervention by the likes of Ms. Hawking and her Chronology Protection Agents.
IT POINTS NORTH. Locke's encounter with Richard seems to suggest not everyone on the Island is unstuck in time. That's more difficult to conceptualize, but Daniel expressly alludes to the possibility earlier in the episode...Richard's gift of the compass harkens back to the scene in Cabin Fever where he gives young Locke the Dalai Lama test with the compass as one of the objects. I've always suspected that test wasn't so much about reincarnation as time travel. I believe Locke will soon travel back in time and meet a version of Richard who does not yet know him. Locke will gain Richard's trust by giving him the compass. Richard will then seek out Locke as a newborn, young child, and teen, in an effort to understand why. This is also why Richard and the Others seem to know Locke in earlier scenes -- they've been expecting him for some time.
WILD CARD. In posts like the Course Correction Conundrum, I've explored the tension between Ms. Hawking's rule against changing the future and the special case of Desmond. He's a "wild card" in part because he sees the path of destiny in advance and can manipulate course correction to change the "picture on the box." But Daniel's comments imply something even more profound -- Des is the only one who can undo the temporal disruption caused by DHARMA and the Others. His freedom from fate is actually what makes him the key to getting it back on track...So who is Daniel's mother? Like many of you, my first thought was Ms. Hawking. After sleeping on it, however, that feels incorrect to me. I think it's very possibly Ms. Hawking is connected to one of our Losties, but my gut tells me it isn't Faraday.
RED SHIRT ALERT. I let out a yelp of recognition (holy *&$% -- that's Frogurt!) when I saw Neil "Frogurt" in the Zodiac raft. Hard core fans will recall Frogurt from the Missing pieces mobisode the Adventures of Hurley and Frogurt. Sadly, the moment I recognized Frogurt, I knew he was going to die and soon. The writers confirmed my worst fears when they subsequently emphasized that Frogurt was wearing a red shirt -- a nod to the show's practice (in the tradition of Star Trek) of killing off minor characters so clad. Still, the flaming arrow was quite a spectacular way to go -- it brought to mind the shocking sight of Doc Arzt being blown to bits.
CHRONOLOGY PROTECTION AGENCY. Ah, Ms. Hawking, you are truly one of my favorite characters on the show! As stated previously, I think she's a Chronology Protection Agent whose mission is to nudge destiny back on course by convincing the Oceanic 6 to return to the Island. She seems to have recruited Ben, though it's unclear whether he has always worked for her or only since leaving the Island. I'll bet Ben wallowed in anger and depression over Alex's murder and his banishment for some time thereafter. I could plausibly see Ms. Hawking recruiting him with the promise he might one day return to the Island with her help.
ONE MORE THING: I was going to edit to add one further speculation but I see from the comments that someone has beaten me to the punch. I'm with Wayne Allen Sallee that the British fellow who wanted to chop off Juliet's hand was none other than a younger version of Charles Widmore himself.
47 comments:
Hey back at you, Big. Only thing that comes to mind: is Mrs. Hawking Dan Faraday's mother? Seems a stretch, yet the light cut the sound before Desmond could hear her name. Had to be a reason for that.
Oh, and I do apologize for my circus freak pic. I'm going for that Don Martin from MAD magazine look this week...
Woohoo, here we go again. So, Charlotte continues to not recognize anything about the island and the DI people dont recognize her, yet Miles suggested she had been to the island before? Maybe being on the island in pre-crash time, and maybe dying there gives Miles the sense that shes been there before?
I agree with you Wayne. My first thought when Daniel mentioned his mother was her and then to see the last scene with her plugging away on the computer... I think she is his mother.
Hey, Bigmouth. Longtime reader, first (I think) time commenter.
I loved last night's episodes. One of the things that I found intriguing was the idea that Richard Alpert knew where to find Locke because Locke told him, in the past, where to find him. And that Richard knew where Locke would jump to next, and that he wouldn't remember him.
Equally intriguing is the compass. Presumably, Richard gives Locke the compass so that Locke can give Richard the compass, and it's one of those objects that Richard showed young Locke when he came to visit. But if Richard gave Locke the compass to give back to Richard, and Locke gave Richard the compass to give back to Locke, where did the compass come from in the first place?
As a longtime Desmond fan, I'm very, very excited at the central role it appears he's going to play in things, as somehow special, perhaps the only person who exists outside of time, in a sense.
I'm excited about Desmond's new role, too! Also, Miles as the son of Dr. Marvin Candle?
I am also a big Desmond Des/Penny fan. I must admit, though, that I have a bad feeling about the future for Des. I was relieved when he and Pen found one another. Now I foresee a bad end for them. Des has already sacrificed himself once. History may just repeat itself for the greater good.
Loved both episodes last night, btw.
I too think there might be something there with Miles and Dr. Candle/Halliwax, why else show us the baby in the beginning? Question, if the island is moving "in time" they how/why did we physically see it disappear? And didn't Ben say if you move the island, you can never return... so he can't get back to the island, can he? Such good episodes, so many more questions!
If the losties are constants (including Miles).. they don't change but the island shifts in time every flash.
So they would never meet themselves.
At the beginning of the episode, we now know that Farraday and the rest of the Losties probably flashed to the 70's.. Thus concluding that the baby you see at the beginning would NOT be Miles.. since Miles is a constant too and not showing the symptoms that Charlotte has after every flash (if she was born on the island and left, then this explains this phenomenon).
Not sure if Mrs. Hawking is Dan's mother just from a story telling point of view. Desmond is on his way to England to find her but it appears she is in LA.
Also loved that the song playing in the convenience store after Hurley saw Ana Lucia was "Dream Police"!
Those flaming arrows came from the Hostiles, not the Others, I'm thinking. Those military guys were British, was Widmore with this unit? Was he the guy saying he would chop Juliet's hand off? Re: what anonymous says above, yea, I though the same, but Faraday may THINK his mom (AKA Hawking) is in Oxford, and doesn't know she is in LA at that point in time (no way of getting around using the word time, you know?)
Looking forward to your post.... If Mrs Hawking is Desmond's mom you would be mixing Irish with the Scottish. The Lost Producers are usually more specific with details but whatever - it seems logical that she would warrant a Faraday shout out of someone with the the skills/knowledge Des should look up. I was also thinking did that military group eventually get to Candle/Halliwax and is THAT what happened to his hand??? Ouch but also seems plausible.
Nice post, Big. Also, re: Faraday telling Des to check on his mom in Oxford, well, Faraday was telling Des something at least three years before he actually left, so F. wouldn't know H. is in LA. And why that strange scene where Sawyer gets something caught in his little toe? Why show that so (kind of) prominently?
My point about Hawking being in LA is a story telling issue. I don't think the writers would send Desmond to England just for him to find she's not there. Why bother? That's why I think, for the sake of story convenience, the person Desmond is going to see is someone else.
I love to read your ideas and theories!! Amazingly I always agree with you. As I say "Great Minds Think Alike!"
Do you think the secret lab where Mrs. Hawking was... is the secret off island Dharma Lab?
Thank GOD Lost is back!!!!
picking up on WAS' toe comment -- maybe that will lead to Sawyer losing his pinky toe and being who is depicted by the 4 toe statue, from either the past or future, now that he is unstuck in time.
Now I get the point about Hawking & Desmond, so I was reading that wrong, Anon. And as you point out, the writers wouldn't send Des off that way, every scene means something now, which is why I thought that scene with Sawyer was odd. Might be a nod to Four-Toes, or Sawyer might become the Island Gilgamesh, who knows?
I meant two different things there, sorry, both that Sawyer was inspiration for the statue or simply a way of reminding us about certain aspects of the Island's history and how far back the time-skipping might go.
So if Mrs. Hawking is all knowing off the Island, is or was she some how related to Jacob who is all knowing on the island?
She is clearly much older than she appears (yeah I know she looks like 80) but due to time travel and effects of the island she could have been one of the ppl on the black rock or something of that nature and is the person who moved the island before Ben?
Nice post big!
Was there an explanation of Farady being in the 70s Dharma station? I don't think that was clear yet. Also, I like the idea of Sawyer as Pinky, the 4-toed statue....I like Hurley's mom, but something about him telling her seemed ominous, will she spill the beans? Also, any thoughts as to what ben grapped and packed up in the hotel room?
Does anyone else foresee the island going back in time to when the 4-Toed people inhabited it? Could that be who fired the flaming arrows? Or back to when pirates were on the island even, i.e Black Rock pirates?
Does anyone else foresee the island going back in time to when the 4-Toed people inhabited it? Could that be who fired the flaming arrows? Or back to when pirates were on the island even, i.e Black Rock pirates?
Thanks for the mention, Big. Another thing I noticed as I rewatched it (I always do twice & this time I wanted to be certain), now that the O6 are off Island, there's no more happy coincidences with the Numbers, its almost blatantly pointed out when Kate tells Aaron to press 31 when going to see Sun. Back on the Island, Chang awakens at 8:15, so to me thats interesting, kind of like, OK, you know the o6 are the Numbers so we can stop having them repeat. Yet on the Island, in the 70s, they still are a mystery.
FEEL FREE TO POST ANONYMOUSLY BUT PLEASE DO IDENTIFY YOURSELF SOMEHOW SO I CAN DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ANONYMOUS POSTS -- THANKS!
Escobar: Very interesting speculation about Miles knowing that Charlotte died in the Island's past! But Miles seems to be able to read peoples' minds to a limited degree. As I recall, he sensed Michael was using an alias...
anonymous: You and Wayne may be right about Ms. Hawking being Daniel's mother. But I'm with whoever (You? Another anonymous?) suggested that her presence in LA makes it less likely she's the person Desmond is looking for at Oxford. I'm guessing Daniel's mother was someone involved with -- and possibly affected by -- the Dharma Initiative, which explains Dan's interest in the subject.
Fargus: Yeas, did you catch what Richard said? "What comes around goes around" -- he transposed the traditional expression. This is the beginning of the payoff of all the hints these past few seasons that the Others have been expecting Locke's arrival on the Island for some time. It's a causal loop or predestination paradox, where effects precede causes in linear time because of time travel. That's why Ben was so hostile toward Locke. I'm sure Ben flipped when Ethan reported Locke's claim that Ben had turned over leadership of the Others. No wonder Ben was so insistent that Locke was "not who we thought he was"...Ben and Richard both knew Locke's arrival was the beginning of the end.
Great catch regarding the uncertain origin of the compass! That's what's called an ontological paradox, which is related but distinct from the predestination kind alluded to above. I still wonder if our Losties are themselves the result of such an ontological paradox involving the Island (i.e., they are their own ancestors).
BJ: I hope you're wrong about Penny and Des...but I have a sinking feeling you're not. I, too, really enjoyed these episodes and hear the next is supposed to be even better!
aims: The crying baby was a reference to the 2008 Comic-Con film where Chang orders his wife(?) to take a crying baby outside while he films the Orchid Orientation. That said, I think it's very possible the baby was in fact Miles, as you and anonymous suggest...
I still wonder what Ben meant by his statement that whoever moves the Island can never return. It could simply be logistical in the sense the Island has moved randomly in spactime. It may have something to do with Smokey, who enforces the rule on penalty of death. It may also just be fate that prevents return, though Ben's hope of returning with the O6 seems to suggest otherwise.
neaux: Possibly...but I personally think it's possible at least to see (but not interact with) past versions of yourself on an Island unstuck in time. See my comment below to Wayne...
anonymous: Good thinking re why Ms. Hawking probably isn't Faraday's mother. But I think it's very possible Faraday's mother will help Desmond find Ms. Hawking.
anonymous: Hey, I'm a mix of Irish and Scottish on my father's side LOL! But I really like your suggestion that the hand chopper will eventually get to Chang. I wonder...in view of the speculation that Choppy is actually a younger Widmore, does Chang eventually cross older Widmore?
Wayne: I wondered about Sawyer's toe myself but never connected it with the Fourtoes' statute -- good thinking anonymous! I suspect it will have something to do with time travel. That is, the presence or absence of his cut toe will be a clue that we're seeing the current Sawyer or some past/future version of himself.
Regarding the Numbers, I'm pretty sure they're still in effect off the Island. The floor was 31 and 3+1=4. Also, didn't the odometer in Hurley's car show the Numbers?
Kansasgal: Brilliant suggestion that Ms. Hawking was in an off-Island Dharma station! It didn't even occur to me when I watched the episode, but what you say makes total sense. Also, one of my favorite lost bloggers, MikeNY, noted that Hawking's Apple computer (a dead giveaway it's Dharma technology) bears the new Dharma logo we were discussing here. This fits well with my speculations in the Island Needs a Constant as well as How to Find the Island...
Alex: I'm guessing that Ms. Hawking is actually opposed to Jacob insofar as he has helped disrupt the timeline, thereby changing the picture on the box. In fact, I even wonder if Jacob is a kind of "wild card" just like Desmond. Maybe the latter is necessary to undo the damage caused by the former...
James: No explanation yet of why Faraday was on the Island in the 1970s, but I think we can safely assume he will end up there due to the Island's movement in time. I'm guessing the Island will settle there for a period of time or perhaps indefinitely.
jonathan r. I personally don't see the Island going that far back in time, at least this season. But the possibility is nonetheless very cool!
BM, good as always. Everyone else, good to hear from you all again as well. I enjoy all your ponderings. I have a couple of thoughts.
On Widmore: I too at first thought the hand-chopper was Widmore when I heard the British acent, but upon re-watching that portion of the episode I noticed the names "Jones" was on his uniform. If he was there in an official (military?) capacity why would he have an alias? Of course, if he was there in a covert capacity then "Jones" is as common as "Smith" I suppose. He could also be with the British group just naybe not with the group that stumbles upon S&J.
On Charlotte: When she got the nosebleed she mentioned that she hadn't had one since she was a kid. This may be amother reference to the fact that she has indeed been on the island before and perhaps even has been skipping through time before.
I'm waiting with baited breath for some explanations (and undoubtedly more questions as a result)!
Sun had Jin's baby which was conceived on the island. I wonder what role this seventh being will play.
machramm: I noticed the Jones name tag, too, upon rewatching...d'oh! Still, the presence of a British group on the Island practically screams Widmore -- I'll bet he's among them, as you suggest. Alternatively, we've met other people (e.g., Chang) with aliases. Who's to say Widmore hasn't used one in his past?
I really like your suggestion that Charlotte had nosebleeds as a child from being unstuck in time. Of course, that would imply Charlotte remembers her youth on the Island. But the vibe I get from her is that she knows she was born on the Island but doesn't have any conscious memories.
SorryGoFish: Agreed! I think baby Ji Yeon is also very important to the Island's future. While Sun's dream of Aaron and Ji Yeon playing together had a slightly sarcastic quality, I could see it foreshadowing their destiny in a dramatically ironic double reverse.
PS: One further thought in response to James's question about the mysterious package Ben removed from the heating duct (ala No Country for Old Men). What if it contains the other objects that Richard will eventually present to Locke in the past as part of the Dalai Lama test?
Great post and comments everyone!
Is the compass the one that Locke had and gave to Sayid because it didn't work anymore due to the heavy island magnetics? I'll have to check.
Perhaps Charlotte isn't familiar with a lot of the DI structures because it's changed a lot since she left? Especially if she left when she was young.
Actually it looks to me as if Sawyer got the twig/thorn stuck in the ball of his foot under his big toe. I'll check again.
I'm wondering, if Jack is so important to saving the island, why was he "not even on the list" like Tom said? Hmmm.
I noticed too that Richard said that "comes around" thing backwards and wondered what it meant. :-o
I have always kind of given TPTB some slack about denying the time travel when asked, because why would the want to give away their plans? I chalked it up to artist's privilege and don't hold anything against them for it. But if it turns out to be Purgatory after they said it wasn't...THAT I will hold against them! :o)
First time poster long time reader. Do you think there is any significance to what Kate said to Aaron about the choo choo train something about " he is smarter then that once you go in you never come back". Also when you see the cartoon later there is a white and black cat (?) chasing each other.
Cuse and Lidelof said we would be meeting two new and key characters this season. I think we have - the butcher-shop lady, and Hawking. Now I know we've actually met Mrs. Hawking before, but she wasn't on the show for any length of time, so I believe she would qualify as a true, flushed-out character. That said, I think that one of them is Dan's mom. Interesting and probably right-on theories about Richard Alpert and 4-Toes. I think that it's an awe-some idea that Sawyer could be 4-Toes. That just blows my mind. And I loved reading that bit about the chicken and the egg = the compass. Neat is the only way to describe that relationship and how it gets resolved. I think that Miles is Hallochang's son too. Definitely. A friend said that the whispers we've been hearing in the forest all along are a result of the Island skipping (a la Willie Nelson) all over the place. And why Walt was able to do same....
BigMouth...big fan of the site.
Has anyone considered the possibility that the British military guys were actually Rousseau's science team? I'd need to do a detailed re-watch, but I was pretty sure I only saw 6 flaming arrows in the air at once (same number of people in Rousseau's science team), and we are ALL familiar with how quickly Rousseau (and presumably her team) would resort to torture. We also know that Rousseau compiled 16 years worth of ammunition and guns somehow. ALSO, her camp was relatively close to where the Castaways camp "hadn't been built yet." I'm gonna buck the trend here and guess that Jones' full name is Robert Jones, and he's actually Alex Rousseau's father. BAM!
Buuuuut....it's probably Widmore.
Interesting thooughts, JLes.
There's an article on Jones on Lostpedia.
Well, I was the Widmore instigator, but I still Stand by it, at least that he was part of that group of military men. They might have aliases, but it seemed as if they were part of a platoon (or whatever) and Widmore might be the Sgt. or Lt. Maj.
Re: Sawyer, watching it again, might be nothing, but it just seemed like the scene was there for a reason.
Lastly, and I know I'm really stretching metaphors here, but the Island skipping through the Kerr shells (am I right with this term?) makes me think of that Russian egg doll that Paulo hid the diamonds in, one layer opening to another, on and on.
Capcom: Good thinking, but I'm pretty sure the compass Richard gives to Locke isn't the same one Locke gave to Sayid -- I remember checking after Cabin Fever. Besides, how would Richard get the compass back from Sayid to give to Locke again? Regardless, we're still left with an ontological paradox (or chicken-egg problem as 80sPro puts it well) of where the compass came from in the first place.
BTW, wasn't it Pickett who made that comment about Jack not being on Jacob's List? I've always figured it was a sign, like the cancer, that Ben was pursuing his own agenda, rather than Jacob's.
Anonymous: That choo-choo line caught my ear, too. It could foreshadow a central dilemma that I believe the Oceanic 6 will face this season. To get back to the Island, the O6 will have to disregard everything they know -- or think they know -- about mass murderer and master manipulator Ben. More generally, the rest of them will have to come to the realization that Jack and Hurley have reached that they can't run from the Island -- they have to go back.
80sPro: Hallochang...LOL! Love the chicken-egg metaphor for the ontological paradox involving the compass. Speaking of eggs, was anyone else grossed out by all that caviar Cheech dumped on his salami sandwich? There have been so many egg references on the show, plus Kate pretending to be Aaron's mother. Is Cheech really Hurley's father? Is that why he left the familyway back when? I'm reminded of my speculation that some of our Losties are children of the Island. This could explain a lot of the daddy issues on the show...
JLes: Very interesting speculation about Jones and Co. being Rousseau's science team! I'd forgotten there were six of them -- one for each Number. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we meet them this season as a result of the Island skipping through time. But Rousseau's team was French, and these guys seemed pretty British. Plus, their uniforms seemed military issue. One thing that struck me was their obvious hostility -- Jones didn't just try to torture Juliet, he wanted to maim her. Are these guys the original Hostiles?
bop: Very interesting...the lostpedia entry suggests the uniforms were U.S. Army or National Guard. Maybe they weren't all British after all. Thanks for the tip!
Wayne: I'm still with you -- Jones is either Widmore or one of his men. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes that these are the original Hostiles...
Ok, I have a follow-up to my nosebleeds comment...
Last night I watched the recap show with DL&CC that aired right before the premiere last week. I noticed a couple things.
The "dead" guy who was cutting down trees last season that Locke stumbled upon ... had a nosebleed when he told Locke he was dead.
When desmond was on the phone talking to Penny from the freighter last season ... he had a nosebleed (I suppose from his repeated consciousness bouncing).
I don't have any new conclusions to draw from these, but I wanted to disclose my observances.
Right, that was my thought about Jack, bringing him along was for Ben's purposes then (the spinal surgeon who "fell out of the sky"), so why is he so pivotal now? Just wondering where things might have changed along the way if they did. And I also don't know how Richard would get the compass, who knows what might be missing there also, if it was even the same one at all. I'm never in love with any of my own theories. :o)
My thought about the caviar was, what a waste of good caviar to smother it with all of that gloppy sandwich!!!!
Off-topic, I'm feeling way old when I read that Cheech Marin is 64. Was the Arrow station named for the flaming arrows or going with the Apollo theme? Curious that the donkey wheel was there on the sonar, but if the Orchid is #6, and the Swan was #3, could that be why the O. was being constructed at that spot? I think that (aside from the map) the Orchid and The Swan are in fairly close proximity (by how long it would take to get back to the beach camp). One thing about the Hostiles, and of course who takes Ben's word for anything, but he told Locke at the DI grave that they couldn't even get along with the Island's original (or was it previous?) inhabitants. My verdict is still out on whom the Hostiles were and that the Others might be a sub-group of the flaming arrow group (who may or may not be the army guys).
nice post bm!
havent read all the comments but my tip for Ms Hawking is that she's charlotte's mum (the mother's maiden name line was the givaway)
best, BlackLotus
WHOA! I hadn't considered that but it is too hard to ignore. And it would make sense too.
What connections do CS Lewis and Hawkings or Hawking have? I must look in to it. Weirdness.....
I'm wondering if Faraday's appearance in the The Orchid station has anything to do with the "incident" Marvin Candle refers to in the orientation video for The Swan station.
BlackLotus! That's what I LOVE about reading these comments, out of nowhere, a great theory in a quick post. That does fit with the way the writers tend to put meaning in just about every line of dialogue. Now I'm wondering about Charlotte's comment to Faraday last season and Miles' reply to her. Adds a level to things.
Hey BM, congrats! I was reading Doc Jensen's lastest LOST article and at the end, where he answers questions, one was from you. How COOL is that?
I agree with Wayne Allen Sallee comments regarding picking up theories from the comments section. It's amazing regarding things that you may have missed; but, is picked up by others.
Take care all and I look forward to another episode tonite!
Wow. And I thought I'd just drop by to say it must be sweet to get Jeff Jensen to tell you you have a good point, Bigmouth. Really, awesome.
Since I'm here, I think Ms. Hawking and her cohorts are already working to change the future. That's why Desmond "can't" change the past. He'll mess up their plan. I believe, too, that there is a larger force (the island, God, fate) trying to stop them. I think Widmore will profit from whatever is coming, and that Jones, Cunningham, and Mattingly are Widmore's men. Maybe in "real time" the island is Charles'. Ben or Dharma used time travel to steal it from him. They're having a hard time keeping it from him, though, as it is his fate. ("The island always was mine. It will be again.)
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