Wednesday, April 01, 2009

Thoughts on Whatever Happened, Happened...

I have to admit, I had mixed feelings about Whatever Happened, Happened. We got plenty of mythological sugar, and the Kate-centric medicine turned out to be surprisingly sweet on its own. I also liked Miles and Hurley's hilarious discussion of time travel. And the scene where Ricardus took little Ben into the Temple to lose "his innocence" was powerful and disturbing. Still, Alpert's comment that Ben would conveniently "forget this ever happened" struck me as potentially problematic. I'm curious to see how the writers avoid the narrative trap they've apparently set for themselves.

Let's start with the Miles and Hurley show, which made me laugh out loud. ("Hey, ask me more questions about time travel!") Last week, my big mouth whined about the tendency of Lost to over-emphasize new character names and introductions. But give credit where it's due because the writers have handled explanations of tricky subjects like time travel with relative aplomb. Humor helps, as do clear metaphors. Miles's exposition got a little convoluted, but his exchange with Hurley culminated in exactly the right question: Why didn't big Ben remember Sayid shooting him?

Unfortunately, the answer suggested by this episode -- i.e., Ben simply forgot -- seemed like kind of a cop out. It's not that amnesia is an implausible explanation. There are hints -- e.g., Mikhail's notations in the Flame -- that at least some of the Others suffer from memory loss. This could even explain how someone like Amy might join the Others despite their habit of murdering her husbands. The problem is that amnesia completely negates any impact the shooting can have on Ben's motivations as an adult, which strikes me as a tremendous opportunity squandered.

It really seemed as if the show was building naturally to the revelation that little Ben's shooting was the defining event of big Ben's life. In my recap to Namaste, I suggested that Juliet might be the blond woman in the painting that hangs in big Ben's house. Last week, I speculated that she might save his life, explaining his adoration of her and insistence that she stay on the Island. This week, we learned that Kate, too, played a pivotal role in little Ben's survival. For most of the episode, I was sure this explained one of my favorite scenes from Season 2 -- Kate's creepy breakfast with big Ben.

Speaking of Kate, I want to say a just quick word in praise of Evangeline Lily. I dare say this was the best Kate-centric episode in the series thus far. Lily may not be the best actress on the show, but her moving performance in Whatever Happened, Happened is probably her best shot at winning an emmy or golden globe. She was assisted by a top notch script written by Team Darlton themselves. What I really loved about the episode was that I finally understood and believed why Kate wanted to adopt Aaron. I totally bought her desire to use him to fill the void left by Sawyer's sacrifice.

I guess I'm just disappointed that we apparently won't get the same insight into big Ben's behavior. I'm also curious to see how the show will explain little Ben's return to Dharmaville. He presumably goes back eventually and lives there up until the time of the Purge. How will Ben's miraculous recovery be explained? Won't people wonder about his disappearance? And perhaps most problematically, what will little Ben make of their confusion and suspicion given that, according to Richard, he will forget this ever happened? It seems like amnesia actually creates more problems than it solves.

Okay, enough complaining about Ben's amnesia. Here, in the spirit of Herb Caen, are some three-dot thoughts on the episode:

HEY YOU! YEAH, YOU! How creepy were Kate's interactions with Roger Linus? I loved the moment when she first realized who he was and forced herself to keep smiling. And the way he hit on her totally gave me the douche chills. Poor Roger's creep factor wasn't helped by that awful wig he wears. I haven't seen one so disturbing since the dead animal worn by Michael C. Hall during flashbacks on Dexter... Roger made another reference to the stratified power structure of Dharma with his rueful comment about janitors and grease monkeys. I wonder whether other disgruntled Dharmies will betray the Initiative during the Purge... Last week, we learned that the Initiative is governed on a day-to-day basis by ruling council, though it's unclear whether members are elected democratically. This episode gave us a glimpse into the Others' power structure. Apparently, Charles Widmore and Eloise Hawking are in charge, but all of them serve a higher power...

Jack's fatalistic attitude fascinates me. I've previously characterized Lost as an Anti-Christmas Carol -- the moral is to embrace your destiny because fighting the future inevitably backfires. Unfortunately, hearing Jack finally say so sounded awfully ugly and craven when a little boy's life was at stake. Is this just another example of Lost tweaking our expectations by having unsympathetic characters speak difficult truths? Or are the writers actually critiquing Jack's complete abdication of moral responsibility in the face of immutable destiny? Juliet and Kate's reaction reminded me of the existential response to nihilism. Just because you believe the world is devoid of intrinsic meaning isn't an excuse to do nothing. Rather, the onus falls on you to create meaning and to take moral responsbility for your creation... Jack says they came back to save the Lefties, but Juliet is correct that they didn't need saving -- Locke did so by restoring the Wheel. So what is that purpose? I'll bet it has something to do with getting everyone back to the future...

MOMMY, I'M FIRSTY. The only thing creepier than randy Roger Linus in a wig is sinister little Aaron, who looks more like a Midwich Cuckoo with every episode. As Hank Hill would say, that boy ain't right... One of the more provocative speculations bouncing around the interwebs is that little Aaron may be invisible to everyone but Kate. There is defintely a Sixth Sense feel to her losing him in the supermarket. Kate is with Aaron when she asks the clerk where the juice boxes are. Yet when she asks the same clerk later if he's seen her son, he looks at her like she must be crazy. In another scene, Clementine answers the door and acknowledges Kate but not Aaron. Frankly, Aaron being invisible is a little too whackadoo even for me. Besides, other people -- including Cassidy -- repeatedly allude to Aaron's existence. Still, it's kind of funny to watch some of the interactions with this possibility in mind -- there are some really ambiguous encounters.

HIS INNOCENCE WILL BE LOST. Richard's comment worked like a kind of Jedi mind trick distracting us immediately from the problems created by little Ben's amnesia. ("He will forget this ever happened...and so will you!") At first, I figured he meant that Ben was going to be corrupted physically, spiritually, or both. I had visions of Smokey as an alien symbiote, sweeping over him like Venom did Peter Parker in Spiderman 3. But then I remembered the Gnostic perspective, which sometimes seems to inform the show. Gnostics believe that the Old Testament deity is actually flawed, imperfect, and something of a poser. Some of them go so far as to venerate the serpent in the Garden of Eden as a heroic figure who sought to provide knowledge and wisdom to humanity. In that regard, I wonder if little Ben will become privvy to some dark secret that only those exposed to Smokey know -- one so terrible that those who know it are willing to kill their wives and unborn children in service of it...

Why did Ben seemed surprised to see Locke alive? When I saw the reaction of the former, I wondered if Ben is still, even now, trying to usurp Locke's place in some sequence of events crucial to the future of the Island. Perhaps Ben keeps trying to pound the square peg of himself into the round hole destiny, only to be rebuffed by course correction every time...

As always, you're welcome to post anonymously, but please identify yourself somehow, so I can distinguish between anonymous posters. Thanks!


Anonymous said...

I have become fond of this blog this season...I think it houses some of the best comments and theories!

So for my first posting, I am wondering if Ben and Charles wanted them all to come back for the same contradictory purpose; someone saves Ben, but who and how does that affect the future?

And it would make sense that they both want Ben saved, since why bring Sayid back (which I actually think might have been orchestrated by Widmore, not Ben)from an event the MUST happen in order to determine his goodness or badness. Since this has never happened to the people experiencing it in that moment, then no one knows for sure which choice leads to which end...

Also the thing I can't quite wrap my head around is why couldn't Michael die and how does this relate?


Rambling Thoughts of Poohbear said...

Initial thoughts, in no particular order:

• Now I’m wondering if Richard and company are ‘good.’ For me, I was under the impression that they are. Richard comments regarding Ben losing his innocence and always being an other were interesting.

• Names that the ‘red shirt’ other mentioned, ‘Libby/Liz’(?) and Charles. Would this be Charles Widmore? Could Widmore been telling partial truth? And what did Richard comments of not reporting to either one mean?

• While Kate might have been upset about leaving Aaron, I’m not buying her reaction completely. Honestly? I just think Kate was getting ‘tired’ of playing mommy. Kate runs, that’s what she does. Not buying her going back to the island to find Claire. [Gotta add a caveat. Kate is NOT one of my favorite characters. So I’ll admit, I may be a little bias to the character.]

• Sawyer’s baby momma (name escapes me, sorry) lives in the area? Wow how about that coincidence… Sawyer’s maturity was on full blast tonight. Acknowledging that he both wouldn’t have been a good boyfriend and a good father? Wow…

• So we know why Ben doesn’t remember being shot by Sayid. Can we say that it was our Losties that help turn him into the ruthless person he is today?

• How did Jules know that Richard could help? I’m telling you, she still knows a lot more about the ‘others.’ Also, I’m dying to find out the full conversation between Richard and Sawyer a few episodes back.

• The Hurley and Miles scenes were funny. They also helped explain time travel 101 better. Also, made me realize how much I missed Miles. I hope to see more of him in upcoming episodes.

• Not sure how I felt about Jack’s lack of support towards helping Ben. Let me be sure I get this -- the new improved, man of faith, Jack is cold enough to let a child die?

• Even though Sawyer told Kate he’s doing this for Jules, I hope this doesn’t bring Kate and Sawyer back to together. The fallout of this will be VERY interesting.

• This was discussed in past posts, but I’m just not buying Horace as the leader. What we’ve learned about the Dharma folks, it just doesn’t ‘feel’ right. Speaking of Dharma folks, Phil (Security Guy) had this suspicious look on his face after the Jack and Horace exchange. Think this may come into play down the line.

Not a bad episode, but, for me it didn’t really get interesting until the last 5 mins. That’s it for me. Had to get my thoughts down while fresh in my mind. Of course, I’m looking forward to all of the thought provoking comments.
Wishing everyone a GREAT day!

neaux said...

Probably one of the best Kate-centric episodes and an overall good performance by Ms. Lilly.

As the father of a 3-year-old, this episode was a little more emotional for me as it would be for other folks. But I think this episode is truly focused on emotion and what that brings to the table in the lostuniverse.

With the overall emotional change in Kate, dealing with the love and pains of a unique motherhood coming back to the island where most women lose their children, she gave up her child as well. Her desire to save Ben speaks waves about her state (and we are all still hoping that she just might be pregnant).

And contrast that with the newly unemotional and void Jack. hmm.

barack abana said...

@Rambling Thoughts of Poohbear,
the other name the 'red shirt' mentioned was ELLIE

as in elloise hawking?.............

charles+elloise? where did i heard that?...

Alex said...

Poohbear -- Ellie was the other name they said - the two are Ellie (Eloise Hawking) and Widmore. So it would appear when Widmore told Locke he was their leader it was somewhat correct as Richard shrugged off the fact that he needed to report to them.

I was a HUGE fan of the Miles and Hurley time travel debate, it was quite reminiscent of our blog her at Eye M Sick. All the questions and going back and forth trying to prove a time loop or that things already happened...yada yada. Also reminded me how good Miles is to the show.

Gotta say, I did not have much love for the Kate centric episode.....

I was much more interested when Kate once again helped a kid, young Ben Linus, bringing him to the others for help. I feel like we have hit that point in the season when they are done with the filler episodes and they are going to start and uphill sprint to the climax and season finale.

The Temple - this place clearly has divine and unique properties. We first see this when Russo's crew crashes on the island and all but her and Jin enter the Cerebus vent or Temple area. They come out and are completely changed and exclaim that that it is not a monster but a security system protecting the temple. Based on what happened to them, perhaps this is what Richard was talking about when he said Ben will lose his innocence and become one of us. Lastly, based on the preview for next week we will be getting a look inside the temple and a Ben back story :)

Can't wait for that and other comments!

mary said...

In a past episode Ben says he was "born" on the island. In essence he is correct. He was REborn on the island. He isn't the same Ben as before.

Neaux--I agree. As a fellow parent I felt Kates distress when she couldn't find Aaron in the store. I've been there. (walking fast, then running, then screaming my son's name, stopping a store employee and asking for help, the store calling a "code adam" child was in the bakery section....of course!) Well played and well acted.

I really enjoyed this episode. I think it is a good set-up for what looks like a fantastic, questions answered next week epi.

Loved (LOVED) the miles/hurley exchange. OMG that was too funny with Hugo watching and waiting for his hands to disappear. The writers definately know ahead of time that we would be talking about this. (unless this was talked about before they wrote it?) him. Will we see a Charles and Ellie next week? Will we finally found out their relationship? I can't wait!

aims said...

Another vote for more Miles, the bit with him and Hurly was great, loved the Back to the Future reference. Can't wait to read more theories!

Anonymous said...

Forgive me if any of this has already been discussed...

I think this was a really good episode. Hurley and Miles were hilarious. I think Ben did know that Sayid shot him and thats why he wanted him back on the island. If Ben would've never gotten shot he would have never been the leader of the others, there would've been no solid connection between him and Richard.

When Richard went into the temple I suddenly realized that he must be the smoke, or the smoke is him better yet. The smoke can take life or give life but it changes you forever.

I think the Ellie from the Jughead episode is Eloise Hawking and Farady almost got killed by his mother and didnt even know it. She had to have been there with Widmore from the beginning. I think it is Eloise/Widmore vs. Ben/Richard and it is our job to find out who is the black and who is the white.

I seriously think that John is Jacob. Why, I don't really know but when he was looking at Ben last night in that chair, I was like, OMG, John is Jacob!

As far as Kate is concerned, Auntie Kate, she really knows how to work her way in to a ready made family doesnt she? Kate is trying to hold on to any sense of family she can find because of her troubled childhood and what happened to her father. She wants to change Aarons life, Lil Bens life to make up for no one coming to rescue her when she and her mother needed it most. I almost died when she lost him and especially when she left Aaron in the motel room...thinking about my own kid and how I would feel..great acting!

I am so intrigued by the previews for next week. Ben admitting that he made a mistake by coming to the island. But what is going to happen as a result? Is Lil Ben going to die because Big Ben broke the rules? Very interesting.

Cant wait til your post BigMouth!

~Gina Marie

Jason said...

This is the first time in a loooooooong time I have been fine with Jack being on screen. I just may like new Jack. Great episode, and the ending was excellent.

Anonymous said...

Another thought, why save Ben, even if he is a kid. I agreed with Jack until I thought about it for a sec. If Jack would've saved Ben at Dharmaville, Kate and Juliette wouldn't have had to take him ot the others. Ben wouldn't have been raised (literally) by the Others and turned out to be Evil Ben. He would have probably stayed in Dharmaville, still become obsessed with Juliette but in a much more non-psychopathic way, his relationship with his dad might of changed because for the first time he admitted he was a bad father and was taking stock. (It's amazing what happens when your kid is dying right in front of you.) By Jack trying to kill off Lil Ben by doing nothing, he was actually creating Big Ben his nemesis. Very interesting...

~Gina Marie

ellipsis said...

I'm glad to see that there was some mention of Claire here... that that's why Kate is back. I really miss Claire.

Agreeing with everyone else, I loved the whole Miles/Hurley talk.

If Ben is going to be an other forever or whatever Richard said.. how is it that he seems to move back into Dharmaville? I need to go rewatch "The Man Behind the Curtain" but I seem to remember Ben wearing a Dharma jumper when he gasses his daddy ...

also, hopefully we will be seeing Annie sometime soon ...

Aaron said...

I normally don't cares so much for the episodes where there's big lulls in the mythological action, but I enjoyed this one. I thought all the stuff between Sawyer-Juliet-Kate-Jack was good and Miles and Hugo have great chemistry. Plus next week's Ben-centric episode looks like it's going to be AWESOME.

That said, couple things.

-- I'm worried they're going to kill off Ben. I think it was Kristen from E! Online said awhile back that he's one of five regulars who could get offed by the end of the season. And in the promo he said he's come back to be "judged" for breaking the rules, presumably turning the frozen donkey wheel, among other things.

With reincarnated Locke ("Welcome to the land of the living" had a couple layers of meaning) set to take over, what's Ben's role?

-- As a previous poster mentioned, how did Juliet know about the Others' special powers? I hope this is explained.

-- I just didn't completely buy Kate's motivation to save Ben.

-- There was a vampire vibe to the way Richard said that once Ben gets the Hostiles' special spa treatment he can never go back and his innocence will be lost. I guess once you get Smokey inside you, you're no longer completely human? Maybe that's why Ben is so fearless. He knows there are only certain things that can kill him, ie the Island itself?

machramm said...

This was the first episode where I actually bought what the Kate character was selling.

Good episode. But we got a taste of things to come. Can’t wait.

I thought it was very interesting that Jack’s very actions (or non-actions as it were) to try and prevent Ben becoming “evil Ben” are what ended up causing him to become “evil”. If he had operated on little Ben, they would never have taken him to the others.

I think Widmore was telling the truth back when he told Locke he was once in charge. I’m thinking Widmore and Hawking were in charge as a sort of team but Richard thinks he has autonomy because of his supernatural? Powers or knowledge thereof.

I was moved by Kate’s tears in this episode. It would be very tough for me to leave my son even if I was going to do some good. I think she feels like she owes it to Aaron to get his mother back if possible. She loves him and knows Claire would make a better mother for him.

I will just say ditto on the Hurley/Miles scenes.

Sawyer called Kate “freckles” at the fence. I think he’s already starting to fall for her again. He said he knew he wouldn’t have made a good boyfriend for her, but that was back then. Hmmm.

Why did Sawyer and Kate not drive one of the vans beyond the fence? I can understand her stopping when she first got to the fence. But then she started to open the door to get little Ben out. What was she going to do? I suppose Juliette gave her the codes. Even so, after disabling the fence, why not drive the van until they reached the thick jungle? It beats carrying the 50+ pounder all through the jungle.

machramm said...

I am a forgetful fool.

DakranII said...

The irony behind Jack's decision not to help was that he would be helping the island no matter what he did. Here he thought he was helping by not doing anything, but not doing anything is exactly what created the Ben we saw in the future anyway. No matter what decision he made, it's one that was already made.

I was surprised to see how shocked Ben looked to see John. Did he not expect John to be alive? I thought for sure he knew that the trip back to the island would see a living John. This is the first time where John has the upperhand on Ben and he seemed to be enjoying that.

I figured Jack would be winning back some of the audience by butting out and letting things happen.

Interesting side to Alpert. The way he made sure this is what they wanted to do with Ben was interesting. And the way he dismissed Widmore and Ellie. They would still be on the island, as past events have indicated that it was Ben who tricked Widmore off the island, I believe.

@Gina, Farraday did know that Ellie was his mother in that episode. He smirked when he realized her name and he was probably a little brazen with her because he knew she couldn't shoot him. Whatever happened happened. :-)

I agree it was funny that Hurley and Miles were having the same discussion that the blogosphere was having. :-) Hurley stumped Miles by saying how could Ben not have recognized the man that shot him...but Alpert said that Ben wouldn't remember any of this. So that could an answer to Hurley's question.

And next episode looks AWESOME. I can't wait.

DakranII said...

@Aaron - I think Juliet knows the others powers because she lived with them for three years. She knows Richard and probably something about the temple, etc. It seems that all the others did.

@machramm - I didn't get impression that Jack was trying to prevent Ben from becoming the Ben they knew by not operating. I think he was just getting out of the way. He only really mentioned that while trying to help, he screwed things up, so now he was just going to let things happen.

Christie said...

I liked this episode. Even though I'm not a fan of Kate I do truly believe she feels a maternal bond to Aaron. And I think giving up her right to him may actually be the first selfless thing she's done. But I DON'T believe she went back to the island to find Claire. I agree with other posters that she ran, which is what she's good at.

Miles/Hurley - the exchange was great but I think how they left it leaves us back to square one. I still don't think it's clear if the past can or can't be changed. Time will tell (no pun intended)

As far as Ben being taken to the temple, I'm with Rambling Thoughts, maybe Richard isn't good. Maybe the others really are the evil force of the island which is why they could so mercilessly purge the Dharma folks. If what has happened always happened then I'm a little annoyed at why Ben would age then. Wouldn't becoming an other mean you never age or is that perhaps only something with Richard Alpert? Richard definitely made it clear that he didn't answer to the apparent Others leaders Ellie and Charles. I really look forward to finding out who Richard is and why he almost needs these humans to do things for him.

Christie said...

Also I too thought it was funny that Cassidy also lives in Southern CA. I know it's a great place (it's where I grew up) but not everyone moves there... :) And maybe we can just assume it happened but wouldn't Kate and Cassidy have a conversation about how weird it is that they first met when Cassidy was doing cons and Kate was running from the law and somehow they BOTH wound up sleeping with the same man. Did Cassidy ever mention Sawyer's name when she met Kate? Did Kate know who Sawyer was the whole time they were on the island? Interesting

Capcom said...

Good point DakranII about Ben not remembering, now our brains have a way to rationalize it until we get the rest of the story. :-D

Capcom said...

Right, wasn't she supposed to live in Phoenix or someplace like that?

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Capcom, when I finished my deadline for the GETTING LOST glossary, it was actually that specific Sawyer episode that I had to stop at. Cassidy was in New Mexico (in that flashback) and I thought it was another LOST coincidence because Kate had the blue airplane in a bank in (I think) Rudisio, NM. Seems like these two have always been in the general area of each other :)

Now, I"m tainted by not really believing anything Kate says to anyone, she proved this several times last night, mentioning Claire, her conversations with Cassidy, even the whole idea of helping little Ben was (I think) a slap in the face at Jack. I really do. And did she talk to Cassidy at the hotel after leaving Aaron asleep in her hotel room three doors down? Did I hear that right? If that's what she did, WTF? (I tried to look up the episode on LOSTPEDIA, didn't help, but I got a laugh at a small photo with the text "Kate struggles to do nothing." As Poohbear said with her caveat, I lost interest in Kate before S1 was over (possibly when she stole Joanna's ID when she thought she was getting on the raft). The coincidence of Cassidy being in L.A., I think, was just a linear thing for the flashback, Kate saw Cassidy in Alabama, then again in L.A., and when C. turns her down, she finds Claire's mom, who would still be in L.A. It showed her being desperate, all in one night. (I had been hoping for another Claire-dream where she is again told not to take Aaron back to the Island).

Re: Alpert and the Temple, that doorway they walked through might have just been a cabin. The Temple itself is closer to the coastline, so next week we'll see if Ben is just in that place to recuperate some.

I thought of two things re: the Purge. The DI must always be doing new things. By 1992, its not the same stuff. I think whatever the heck happens to Ben next week is eventually picked up on by DI to start Room 23. Richard in effect was saying that they were going to brainwash Ben, you can read it any way you want, but he was going to be brainwashed. So, if Oldham or someone else comes up with the mindwipe idea, does that up the ante re: the Purge? Is Ben going to be feeding the Others intel prior to the Purge? Or will it happen sooner because of the shooting?

Alpert seems a lot more in the know in 1977; he still seemed a little surprised in 1973 when LeFleur referenced Jughead. And, as PoohBear questioned, yes, Juliet was on the Island for three years, and so the Richard Alpert of 2001 is much more in the know than in 1977. Think on it, in 2004, during the time jumps, Richard talked to Locke as if he was aware of exactly where he would end up next (the whole you won't know me, here's my compass deal). So, as much as we don't know about Juliet, I can assume that she knows quite a bit about Alpert's role with the Others.

Looking forward to everyone's comments.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@LostPDX next week's episode is about Ben, so if we don't see mention of Sayid, we'll know it's Widmore. Re: Michael, the Island wouldn't let him die because he had to go back and be on that freighter. Hawking commented to Desmond "The Island isn't through with you yet." I'm up in the air as to if Hawking is helping both Widmore AND Ben.

DakranII said...

@Wayne: But isn't room 23 when the Others are living in Dharmaville? I don't believe we have any evidence that Dharma set up room 23, or the Others set up room 23 when they moved into Dharmaville.

Perhaps room 23 is akin to what little Ben is about to under-go that Alpert alluded to?

I could be hazy on the details, I won't claim to remember everything from previous seasons.

KevJones said...

Last night was fun.

I agree with Wayne and Poohbear, Kate bores me, i was a little bummed out at first when i realized it was going to be a Kate episode. However it didnt disappoint as i had expected.i was a Huge fan of Hurley and Miles debating time-travel fundamentals. I also really liked Jack as he resed to help Ben. Not because he would let a child die, but because he was willing to test fate and see if Ben lives or dies. Now, obviously he will live, and he will definitely become the big Ben we all love to hate. If he had saved him like Juliet had hoped, Ithink the chances of him becoming who he did would have been greatly lessened. But whatever happened, happened.

Jack's response to Kate "you didn't like the old me" was excellent. I'm not much of a fan of the characters interpersonal relationships, especially Jack and Kate's, but when that conversation occured i was elated. It seemed to me that it was about time Jack saw things how they are and not how he'd like them to reference what Sawyer said in LaFleur, it seems like act is thinking more now than reacting, and it's much more enjoyable. Jack's character development is coming along very nicely, no longer is he just a man of science, and i think soon he will soon fall into the catgory of people who believe in Science and Faith that mutually reinforce one another, not negate one another.

Juliet's days as an Other are still very prevalent, but i wonder what her role in all this will play out to be, i still think that the painting in Ben's house is of her, even if he forgets everything, maybe she'll be a blurry memory that sticks with him, which may explain his obsession with her in the future.

I almost dislocated my shoulder from jumping around in excitement after seing Richard take Ben into the Temple. some very ominous talk from Richard that makes me question his motives was the "lost innocence" comment.

overall very entertaining, and next week looks like it could be one of the best episodes ever.


Capcom said...

Heheh, I was disappointed at first to see that it was a Kate episode too. :o)

Good points Wayne. LOL, Kate struggles to do nothing! I find it difficult to believe her too, almost as much as Ben. She seems to say whatever is necessary at the moment. I also got the impression that she was leaving Aaron in the room unattended, as if she said to Mrs. , "Well, I'm leaving him in the room, if you want him you can get him."! :-o

It looked like both Jack and James were telling Kate in this ep that they weren't good enough for her. Although IMO that's not saying much, I think that they sold themselves way too short on that measuring stick. :o)

But it confuses me about what is the Old Jack...that is, the Old Responsible Jack who was good on the island, or the Old Wino Jack? Apparently he meant Wino-Jack, cuz she did like Island Jack there for a while until the bearcage happened.

KoreAmBear said...

Interesting reveals in this episode.

Q. What was the meaning of Aaron wanting some milk (cute baby talk on the "thosty") and then doing the bait and switch to the juice box? the magic box located inside a Juicy Juice?

Funny, the LOST people left the T for Times market sign on -- only Hawaii viewers like us would know that it is a local supermarket chain. I guess that's why they film it there instead of Safeway. I was looking for the huge Spam section and the ahi poke in the seafood deli area.

Miles, what a clown. "You're free to leave. But then I'll shoot your leg." I can't believe he was this really surly Chinese gansta dude in Rush Hour. "Hey Tubby"? I thought Sawyer had a monopoly on the monikers?

Q. Per the preview of next week, how/who/and for what is Ben going to be judged?

Why does Richard dress like a new millenium metrosexual but the rest of the hostiles are dressed always in rags? And where is Tom in all this? Hanging out with Arturo at Studio 54?

Wow, Jack is making sammiches for everyone? I wonder what the Dharma brand baloney tastes like? Chicken?

Why did Claire's mom have a non-desript look when Kate said she was going to go back to find Claire? Wouldn't the natural reaction have been to say "I'm going with you" or "how am I going to reach you if you do happen to find Claire?" I thought it was a little odd that Claire's mom didn't seem to care all that much -- maybe b/c she was preoccupied and overwhelmed about Aaron.

Not much LOST mythology, but I guess these episodes are needed to answer some questions. Next week should be nice.

Capcom said...

Aw, me too Koreambear, I love it when Aaron talks. If he would have awakened and said, "I wuv yoo too mummy" I would have lost it. :'-(

Yes, look for the spam in the screencaps!

I guess now that Sawyer is the new sheriff in town, Miles is the new Sawyer. :o) Remember what Hurley said about that last season, haha.

KoreAmBear said...

Oh yah, I forgot that Hurley addressed Miles as the new Sawyer. Miles v. Sawyer in the Moniker Maker Associaton (MMA) death match!

Anonymous said...

I've been watching this blog for a few weeks now and I think its definitly one of the best. But everyone seems to be sure that Ben is evil. I've just never been thoroughly convinced that he is in fact evil. Regardless of his past actions. Richard said that he would lose his innocense if they allowed him to save Ben. But that could be interperted a few different ways. For example it could mean he would never be the naive child unaware of human nature and simple view of the world and having lack of responsibility.

I've had a thought running through my head about John's death and Ben's close encounter and why Ben seemed suprised to once again see John alive when he should'nt be. John is resurrected without every having to go to the temple. It could be that he is supposed to become the leader of the Others but i seriously doubt that.

If that were true. Why would the island not take care of Ben's tumour in 2004?

If Ben is to become the leader after the Purge. Why does he need to be taken into the temple to be healed in '77'?

I just think it's a little odd that John continues to live after all that has happened to him. Falling from 8 stories, being shot by Ben and once again being strangled with an extension cord by Ben. (Not really helping my theory of Ben not being evil is this?)

I do believe that Ben has ulterior motives compared to the wishes of the island. Hence his judgement day coming in the next episode. But i generally think that he does what he does for the greater good. Who would willingly go back to be judged by Smokey without believing that? Lets say sort of like Ben the favorite brother to Joseph and son to Jacob. Who died without ever committing a sin. Our Ben believes he is justified in everything he has done and probably feels a little persecuted for it.

Someone may have mentioned this before. But has anyone noticed the drawing from the HATCH thats on Big's blog. The dark figure of a man with one black eye and one white with a red slash/scar running through it makes me think of a mirrored image of John during Claire's dream. Where she saw John with eyes just like that. Not to mention that the figure has no hair helps put me in mind of John.

Great comments everyone.


Rambling Thoughts of Poohbear said...

Mike --

I'm not totally sold on Ben being pure evil. He does evil things. However, I'm on the side of when everything is said and done, the character will be on the side of good. (Either that or it's my huge crush on the actor ... lol)

Alex said...

So if Ben killed Locke and made sure he was on the plane to get back on the Island, does that mean Christian was killed and did not commit suicide? Ben, may be the greatest manipulator ever seen, but that does not mean he is evil. There is a purpose behind everything he does on the show, so I am guessing that he did that for a reason. Perhaps he wanted to be the leader of the island again and utilize it's power and killing Locke off the island was a way to ensure that and get back on the island - Or he knew if he killed Locke he would return like Christian? Either way Ben know what he is doing and we will find out this purpose next week...

DakranII said...

There seems to be a difference between Locke and Christian though. Christian acts much more ghostly. Locke is interacting with the new plane crashees like everything is normal.

Christian on the other hand stood around creepily in the surf, then disappeared, wore a suit that never seemed ruffled, and no one else ever saw him besides Jack.

I don't know if it was just set up to be that way by the producers? Kind of like how you don't catch the way things are set up like in the Sixth Sense?

I'll be curious to see how Locke rising from the dead and Christian rising is the same or different.

JLes said...

I'm not sure I can agree with the call on this being Kate's best episode (she did wear a pretty mean button-down with no pants off-island in Season 4) but I did enjoy the episode and her role in it. Namely the fact that she ditched that little lumpy-headed mongoloid anti-christ Aaron, ("I'm fursty Mommmy!") and got the cold shoulder from Jack 2.0.
Coincidentally I also rewatched the episode Fire & Water last night where we learned that Aaron would be "in danger" unless he was baptized by Mr. Eko. Too bad Mr. Eko was never ACTUALLY a priest. That kid is going to live in sin the rest of life and be responsible for The Apocalypse if you ask me..... I know you didn't.

I was REALLY happy to see how Ben was ultimately resurrected. Thought that was totally game changing. Now we, the viewers, know at least ONE way that death can be averted, or just be a "temporary state of being." NOTE however, that Locke, after being resurrected did NOT forget Ben or his Ben will.

I think now EVERY dead body still on the island is fair game for resurrection. Boone, Shannon, Nikki, Paulo, Charlie, Frogurt, NAOMI! (my favorite), Ethan, Goodwin...the list goes on. What do you guys think? Do you REALLY think ANYONE on this show is dead?

I'll e-bet anyone anything that we see Naomi again. Her and Locke are gonna get tied up in an epic showdown of the undead.

PUMPED for next week!

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Good post, Big, nice comments to the rest. To play devil's advocate, while the selective amnesia ploy was maybe the only route they could have gone without a time loop, Richard's words on forgetting this might mean that Ben will remember something else in its place. Maybe he'll be made to remember that his father did this by beating him, and that the temple does have its old school version of Room 23. @dDakranll, I think that WAS DI's brainwashing room on Hydra, initially, just my belief. The Others may have used it, but I'm thinking it was DI machines. And, I'm wondering, one kick-ass way to let the DI not ask questions on how Ben is healed is by the DI TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO DO THE SAME. Also, if Richard says this can only work with kids, bam, Room 23 and the interest in kids who can see ghosts or be like Walt. If we wanted a reason to see why DI went from how they were in the '77 to whatever was up in '92, seeing what happens as a result of Richard taking Ben will make them realize that exotic energy isn't the only unique thing about the Island.

@KoreAmBear, lol on metrosexual Alpert. He's dressing different because Mittelos Bioscience has to have a front office by the time Locke gets that phamplet in high school. But how would Richard be leaving the Island if the DI still have the sub? You guys really eat that much Spam in Hawaii? (Can Tom get his 2004 physique from a Spam diet?)

@poohbear, I think whether Ben was ever good or evil is moot now, though I've always seen him as I see Sayid, doing what is necessary (to them). It will be interesting to see what happens next week, I think his excitement at seeing Sayid flip Jin will be replaced by his disdain toward the DI, he might even be led to believe the DI caused his injury.

And that Temple has to be huge. I recall hearing that Jin and the science team saw only one small portion of it.

Anyone wonder about Ben's being unconscious in 2007 had to do with him being shot in 1977. I thought that after Locke's comment welcoming him back to the land of the living.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Re: the thought of anyone who is dead being resurrected as fair game, it would maybe explain how the Others "recruit" through the years. It seemed as if their numbers were low in 1954, but pretty hefty in the 70s and 00s. Could Richard have taken the dead Others that Sawyer and Juliet killed and gave them new life? Will we see Henry Gale (finally)?

DakranII said...

This may be a reason that Miles was recruited to join the expedition with the other scientists. He talks to the dead! That little talent seems to be under the radar. What other reason would have been brought along? Widmore must know that the dead have some place on the island and therefore needed someone who could talk to the dead.

I wonder where he picked his talent up and if he was born on the island. I hope that this talent comes in to play somewhere down the line.

On an unrelated note, I forgot to mention earlier. Did anyone else find the blond woman who had Aaron in the store a tad creepy? She looked bizarrely she had extra skin on her face or something. I was just waiting for a devil voice to come blaring out at Kate, saying something about not taking him back to the island.

JLes said...

I absolutely noticed that. The people I was watching the ep with immediately shouted "MIDDLE AGED CLAIRE!" when they saw her... I'm not sure about that...but she was TOTALLY creepy and that whole scene/interaction was slightly bizarre. Great call.

KevJones said...

Wayne, I like your thoughts on the Others recruiting resurrected people, and a Henry Gale storyline would be awesome! I've never been able to just forget about that, it was Ben's "first" lie to the survivors and I think there was definitely an underlying reason for it.

Big, I owe you a big-time apology, in my last comment I unwittingly plagiarized your BSG recap "science and myth...mutually reinforce.." can't explain how sad I was when I realized it, but I'm very sorry. Moving on...

I also think that the amnesia won't necessarily turn into a trap, but it did seem a little too simple for what I (and many others) have come to expect from Lost.

3D said...

Bigmouth wrote...

"Miles's exposition got a little convoluted, but his exchange with Hurley culminated in exactly the right question: Why didn't big Ben remember Sayid shooting him?"

I don't think that's such a good question, because it assumes something we don't know to be true and may very well be false: how do we know Ben DIDN'T remember Sayid? (Well, we know now, thanks to the clunky exposition, but I mean, based on Season 2 events, how did we know?)

The answer is, we didn't know. Ben is close to the vest about everything and doesn't reveal anything he doesn't have to. In addition, when he first met Sayid, he was undercover as Henry Gale. It wouldn't be in character for him to go skipping around the Swan station announcing that, tra la la, he remembers Sayid from 1977 and that Sayid shot him. It's entirely conceivable that he knew Sayid instantly but didn't let anyone know about it, just like he doesn't let anyone else know anything, ever.

However, for some reason, the writers seized on this non-plothole as a plothole, and wrote two scenes just for the purposes of pointing it out, and then "explaining it". I think the explanation is worse than the "problem". Like you, I think those bits of dialogue were completely extraneous and could lead to actual plot holes down the road.

Bigmouth wrote:
"Unfortunately, the answer suggested by this episode -- i.e., Ben simply forgot -- seemed like kind of a cop out."

Agreed. In fact, if what I think is going to happen is going to happen, then in the lifesaving process, Ben has been infused (by Smokey?) with all the past and future knowledge of the Island (losing his "innocence") and this is why he was aware of so many things and prepared for so many situations well in advance ("I always have a plan, John.") and why he seemed to be expecting a plane to crash in the Season 3 premiere, just before it happened. And also why he was so shocked when his daughter was shot and killed, because maybe it was "off script".

Someone on another forum mentioned the Widmore/Ben conversation from last season. Ben says Widmore can't kill him, and Widmore says "I know what you are, boy." Is he something other than human, with all seeing knowledge, after the lifesaving process? Is he in fact a "zombie" shell of what used to be Ben, a la Christian, Claire and maybe Locke?

KoreAmBear said...

Perhaps Ben wasn't lying when he's told various people that he was born on the island. Maybe he sincerely believes that because of the temple of amnesia.

So that possibly explains Ben not remembering Sayid (but good point JLes about a fact not in evidence yet).

But how does it explain Rousseau not remembering Jin in 2004 (after their flash encounter in the 90s)? Again, Biggy, you mentioned that Desmond obtained "new memories" from Faraday because Desmond was special. We're now getting the explanation as to Ben.

But that still leaves Rousseau. Is the explanation that she's just flat out nuts? But she doesn't seem nuts about historical events -- she seems to recall all that vividly. Did we miss a "comment cava, monsieur Jin" in 2004?

I agree that lady taking Aaron to the customer service desk was purposely planted by Darlton as someone meaningful, judging by how creepy she was.

I don't think anyone who has died is necessarily really dead for purposes of the show. I believe that the whispers are the people who are dead (like I think a dead Boone was one of the whisperers noticing Shannon) that are observing and could be brought back. Or not. Stay tuned.

What was the meaning of the switch from milk to juice box? That could be the master key to all of LOST. :P

Jason said...

I agree with you on the amnesia angle Big. They used the same thing with Faraday (conveniently helping him forget about Desmond), it just seems like that's their get out of jail free card (which is cheap).

machramm said...

I think the producers may be attempting to answer all of the speculation in the blogosphere regarding the finality (or non-finality) of someone's death on the island.

The episode is entitled "Dead Is Dead".

I suspect however that we will get more misdirection and, as usual, more questions than answers.

machramm said...

I should clarify that the name of *next week's* ep is "Dead Is Dead".

Blue Eyed Monster said...

Ben may not remember being shot by Sayid. However, I think Ben and Sayid will have more interaction in upcoming episodes. Ben will probably learn that he was shot by Sayid from Richard or perhaps from Sayid himself. Sayid or one of the Oceananic 6 may tell him more about the future and Jacob. He could then use that info to place himself as a false leader of the Others.

By doing this, the writers will be able to use a form of "selective Amnesia" to finish telling Ben's story.

As Always,

Anonymous said...

Ben would not of been "shocked" when Sayid came into talk to him, because he already knew he was there. Ethan would have already given him the list of peoples names right? I assume that these names would have been on there and Ben would have at least been aware that the name is the same.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Jason, it may have been more tongue-in-cheek towards Jeremy Davies' great acting,but Desmond did comment that Faraday should have been covering his head when doing those experiments. With Ben, I'm holding out if I'm calling b.s. or not. But the Desmond/Faraday thing is a different dynamic completely.

For those worried about Elizabeth Mitchell defecting over to V, the same was said when Nestor Carbonell joined the cast of CAIN. I'd like to see V do good, but if it doesn't, Juliet will be back before LOST winds up.

@KoreAmBear, any more thoughts on this Tom/Arturo spin-off? Was that place in Pasadena called The Hat? What if we have Tom and Arturo open a place in Oahu called Spam In A Hat? And they have a puppy named Vincent Alpert.

By the way, I was talking with my friend Sid and he mentioned that the final scene reminded him of the end of THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL.

Anonymous said...

to all re: the amnesia effect...I think the conversation between Hurley and Milo wasn't just for our entertainment, tho entertaining it was, I think it was to explain why Faraday didn't remember Desmond, Rousseau not remembering Jin, etc...because technically, it hadn't happened yet.

This then leads me to believe Ben is trying to orchestrate a butterfly effect on his life, to what end I am not certain. The Losties are the butterflies.

How that explains Richard Alpert? I think his real story begins after 1977.


Anonymous said...

Oh, and whoops, meant to mention one other thought before the butterflies took me away - I am wondering if Ben didn't totally manipulate Sayid NOT because he remembered him shooting him, but because he HADN'T shot him and Ben wanted him to shoot him for some reason. And maybe Ben was banking on Sayid not blindly joining the Dharmas and instead finding himself in his predicament, and Big Ben knowing Lil Ben knew Lil Ben would befriend him, thus chaos and shooting ensues.

Maybe Ben knew if he died, the island would resurrect him and he wouldn't have to be human anymore. Just a thought, not sure where I am going with it just yet...


80sPro said...

I am surprised, Big, that you didn't jump on the fact that Jack's irony in turning down helping Ben (as well as Sayid shooting him to begin with) cause whatever happened to happen.

It made me a little sad to think that this whole time Jack was supposed to be some sort of hero, but instead was a facilitator. Makes me realize that the end of this saga is not going to be pretty. Not sure how I feel about that. Yet, I am not going anywhere.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@LostPDX I was mentioning that a few posts up, re: Alpert. For several seasons he is like this ageless figure, then we find out in 1954 he wasn't aware of time travel and in 1973 he had trouble recalling Jughead and Sawyer (though he picked up on it quick). I'd argue the latter was due to Richard being surprised at how LeFleur simply walked up and started talking. By the time 815 crashes, Richard will have changed, I wonder if its because of the whole Mittelos Bioscience lie.

@80sPro good point on Jack. As crazy as it sounds, I want to believe that adult Ben orchestrated young Ben getting shot, which then branches off to Sayid, Juliet, Jack, etc. As LostPDX said, the butterfly effect, only in overdrive. I'm thinking if, after all this, it is Hurley that causes the biggest rupture in 1977. (It was his voice repeating the numbers when Ajira 316 went down).

Capcom said...

Hi all, great discussions!

Wayne, re; T.D.T.E.S.S, do you mean when Gort carried Klaatu back to the ship to revive him?

I thought that RA looked more like he was shocked that Sawyer mentioned Jughead, not that he didn't remember. I could be wrong. :-)

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Capcom, yes, that was the scene Sid was referencing, in the original film. Re: Jughead and Alpert, as I said, it might be that Alpert was simply surprised that LeFleur would just walk up and talk to him as an equal, maybe even one-upping Horace, but if he was shocked that James mentioned the bomb to him, does that mean the DI DON'T know about Jughead? (DIDN'T know? I hate time travel and past/present/future tenses.)

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Off-topic and only for the comic geeks, maybe: I picked up Brian K. Vaughan's PRIDE OF BAGHDAD today. Illustrated by Niko Henrichon, the graphic novel is about the four lions who escaped from the Baghdad Zoo in 2003. The book won an Eisner in 2005. Vaughan has written some of the best episodes during S4 and S5 on LOST, and Hurley was reading the Spanish-version of Vaughan's Y: THE LAST MAN ON EARTH while waiting for Ajira 316 to board. POB is a brilliant book.

KoreAmBear said...

Turns out, on a flash visit from Tom in 2009 to Arturo, Tom finds out that Arturo has hooked up with American Idol's Adam Lambert. Tom is devasted and when he goes back to 2004, he eats as much Dharma Spam as he can and goes from a fabulous 140 to a whopper weight of 280. Arturo says he cannot deal with the instability of time skipping but instead loves the security of a recording artist. Arturo was going to have Sayid take out Tom, but Sawyer already did it (I forget was it Sawyer? Who killed Tom?).

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

"That's for taking the kid." Yea, Sawyer. I have decided that I am going to use Spam In A Hat as a place in one of my stories. I suppose there isn't really Dharma Spam because of the livestock, but it would have been a cool gag and freed advertising. Not too familar with Idol this year, KoreAmBear, maybe we can get Tom on DANCING WITH THE STARS next year. Arturo can watch from the front row to pine over the BB/FF that he ever had. Arturo then gets fired from the role of new DA on LAW & ORDER because he keeps calling everyone Tom.

Capcom said...

One would think that DI Spam would be a perfect long lasting consumable for the DHARMA pantries, especially for getting restocked "in perpetuity". X-D

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@Capcom, true. Maybe it has to do with where they are buying in bulk for the foods drops. Is mac and cheese the equivalent? To follow up on what you commented yesterday, it would seem the DI has no knowledge of Jughead. Will LeFleur tell them and this is where the Swan's location is then chosen?

@Big, I must have missed the very end of your post, yea, Ben was creeped, but hell, I was, too. Imagine Locke standing there waiting for your eyes to open. Years ago, Brian Dennehy did commercials for Zantac, he'd walk down a street at night and point at a lit window, then asking "Its 3 AM, everyone else is sleeping, do you know why this guy is awake?" My late friend Harry commented quite deadpan, "He's awake because he knows Brian Dennehy is walking down his street at 3 AM." Agreed that Ben might not have expected him, but don't forget, Locke was not resurrected until after Ben was knocked out by Sun.

Capcom said...


I put a special image for you at the end of my latest post Wayne. :-x

Synchromystic Librarian said...

kate's breakfast with ben has always been in the back of my mind pestering me but i figured we will never get more about it, i hope i'm wrong

here's 1 take

Kate and The Long Con

synchromystic librarian

on another note, looking at upcoming ep titles we need to study up on Thoth

KoreAmBear said...

SL, good thoughts about Kate. There is something strange about her and her meddling to save Ben 2X now.

As far as the temple of amnesia thing for Ben, does Hurley and Miles' Abbott and Costello "Who's on First" bit explain away why Miles, Hurley, Sayid, Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Jin -- don't remember Ben and the others in 2004, even though they knew Ben and the others in 1977? Hurley said "why didn't I remember (in 2004) what I did here (in 1977)" and Miles conveniently said, "because we haven't experienced it yet" and because "time is not linear". But that would be more of the Desmond is special time lineage, right, where new memories happen after it is experienced?

I'm with Miles, just shoot me now.

Capcom said...

I'm kind of thinking that the way Miles put it, Time would look like a long string of cursive lower case letter "Es" all in a row with line-space in between, if you know what I'm saying, sorry I can't draw it. A loop leaves the linear timeline at a certain point, loops up, back and over, and comes back to the linear timeline at the same point that it left. So the 1977 timewarp happened off to the side on the backloop, but you come back to where you were before in 2007 and continue on at the linear level from there. I dunno, that's all I've got. ??? :-o

Capcom said...

Well, I tried to illustrate it here:

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

@KoreAmBear and the rest. I think Kate was helping save young Ben to piss Jack off because he wasn't going to help, but that's just me and my thoughts on Kate. If it turns out that Kate played some surprise role in all of this, I'll go back to watching HEROES, ha. Easy to believe that something is up with her because something is always up with her. Whatever she does, its for herself, and maybe she seems to think that by helping save Ben that James will drop to his knees and propose to her right by the sonic fence.

The time travel thing always comes back to Desmond being the exception, right? Capcom really does lay it out well, but I'm, trying to figure it out while keeping Desmond out of the picture (on the box, so to speak). Sadly, that doesn't make it any easier.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Capcom made a decent illustration at her Perdita Scienta blog. I wonder how an Arturo/Tom time loop would look, both at Studio 54 in 1977, maybe visiting Chicago to dance at the late & lamented O'Banions. At her regular blog, she posted Richard as Gnort, which shows that this guy looks good in any type of eyeliner. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

@KevJones--i know last week I was riffing on multiple Bens, but maybe its Richard Alpert that moves through various points in his existence. He seemed pretty hesitant to push open that door to the temple. Of course, he was all over the place during the record-skipping, he seemed to know when he'd meet Locke next, he knows the latest fashion in clothing, etc. Just as we had a Ben/Sayid episode, I'm hoping tomorrow is a Ben/Richard episode.

Capcom said...

Tx Wayne! Yeah, my visual aid probably falls apart completely if you add Desmond, Ben, or any other of the anomalies the picture!

Yes, RA did look hesitant, didn't he? Maybe he was just giving it a second thought before he did whatever it is he's gonna do to innocent Bennie, to turn him into whatever it is he's going to become. It also kind of looked like he was a little afraid.

KevJones said...

@ Wayne, I've been wondering the same thing about Richard, I didn't think he was the type to "take the innocence" of young people, hence the slight hesitation.

Tonights episode should hopefully clue us in more.
Happy Wednesday!

Synchromystic Librarian said...

i'm still convinced we HAVE seen more than 1 Ben

synchromystic librarian

Anonymous said...


Synchromystic Librarian said...

i'm thinking the shadow people are DI AND Others' offspring, they played together on the island and created a "club" with a secret password phrase, they now intend to save the island TOGETHER rather than the way their stupid parents did it as Others vs DI